2018-19 Season | Point Guard Discussion

AzStevenCal

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OK, but I would rather see a Point Guard feeding a Shooting Guard and Center whose chances for success are maximized. :)

Yeah, me too. But most importantly, I want to see a team where every player is a threat to do something positive on any play. If Canaan played every night like he did today, we could live with he and Booker manning the guard spots.
 

Errntknght

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But isn't it the case that if we had an effective Point Guard, he'd be neutralized by Igor's "system"? That everyone and anyone is a facilitator.

What you just stated was what seemed to be a widely held opinion here. Canaan and Melton then said that Igor was pounding on them to remember everything he told them about running the point in his O. Igor followed that by saying the point was of great importance in his offense. Their three statements were definitely counter to our widely held view. I'm going to assume Igor knows what he's talking about.
 

BC867

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What you just stated was what seemed to be a widely held opinion here. Canaan and Melton then said that Igor was pounding on them to remember everything he told them about running the point in his O. Igor followed that by saying the point was of great importance in his offense. Their three statements were definitely counter to our widely held view. I'm going to assume Igor knows what he's talking about.
Then it's really a damn shame that management has not procured an experienced Point Guard for Igor (and the rest of us).

With Sarver's dual-temp's as GM ... or worse, Jones waiting to be named our next permanent (unqualified) GM ... what is going to change?

Until it does, it is just lip service.
 
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Then it's really a damn shame that management has not procured an experienced Point Guard for Igor (and the rest of us).

With Sarver's dual-temp's as GM ... or worse, Jones waiting to be named our next permanent (unqualified) GM ... what is going to change?

Until it does, it is just lip service.

This is a tough time to make a deal happen. Until December 15th when players who signed deals during the offseason can be traded we're stuck in sort of a holding pattern and evaluating our own talent in that time isn't worst thing we can do. We're not a playoff team right now and picking up a few extra losses as we ensure that the answer at PG isn't already on our roster is not as doom and gloom as some people think.

Yes, it sucks that McD left us in this scenario but he was fired for a reason. I know you'll spin this onto Sarver but it seems he was hands off with McD to a certain extent because it got to the point where he couldn't justify the roster he built with so many holes and was sent on his way. What else could Sarver do at that point? Let him stick around? Having people cover the GM position now is what needs to be done, and we have 2 young up and coming front office executives handling it right now. They aren't experienced but immediately hiring a permanent GM after firing McD would have been a mistake because they didn't look around, or see if someone in house was qualified for that job.

If Sarver did hire someone he would be bashed, and because he hasn't hired someone he's getting bashed. What can he do other than sell that would give him good marks in your opinion? I don't think there is anything, you'll find a reason to be upset with whatever move he makes or doesn't make, it just depends on the route he takes.
 

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The salary cap is $102 million this season, and it usually goes up at least 5% from one year to the next. So call it $107 million in 2019-20. Wall will be at $38 million, so that's 36%. Wall's salary goes up in the remaining years of his contract, but so will the cap. 40% is an exaggeration.

The status of Wall's trade kicker is unclear. There's a brief article by Zach Lowe, which has been quoted by everyone, in which he says that a trade kicker cannot bring the player above his maximum salary (which is true), that there are funny considerations that would come into play if Wall is traded this season, before the maximum extension takes effect (which is probably also true), and that "sources say" that the Wizards could somehow end up owing Wall a whole bunch of extra money if he's traded now (for which he provides zero evidence and which is probably nonsense).

So let's assume that Wall is already maxed out for 2019-23 and that the kicker would not inflate any of those numbers.

The salary should not be a deal breaker. The Suns have been at or below the cap line for so long that some of us may forget that being over the cap used to be routine. The Suns aren't likely to be players for star free agents anyway (you can forget about Durant), so the only ways to get top talent are through the draft and by trade. If it's by trade, that means a huge salary. The Suns would still have their exceptions to play with.

If Ayton and Bridges are part of the core, their extensions will start in 2022-23, the last year of Wall's deal. That year could be ugly. It's also very far in the future. A new CBA could create ways to lessen the hit of expiring mega-salaries -- it's not like the Suns would be the only team in that position.

Before 2022-23, the Suns' salary situation would be fine. Anderson gets dumped, so the big salaries on the roster for next season would be

Wall 38.2
Booker 27.3
Warren 10.8
Ayton 9.6
Jackson 7.1
Bridges 4.2

which comes out to a bit over $97 million, still under the cap and with plenty of room to fill out the roster and even add an MLE player (or whatever that exception is called now).

I don't know enough about Wall to have an opinion on his attitude, and his injury history is a concern. But the Suns have preached "financial flexibility" since the end of the Nash era, and they have not once used that flexibility to make the team better. Instead we get self-defeating trades for competing PGs or inane signings like Ariza. Flexibility is useless if you don't seize good opportunities that present themselves.

If Wall is available for cheap, I say get him. Bender, Daniels, Canaan, Melton, MIL pick, PHO 2020 pick lottery-protected.

Exactly.....Injury issue would be the concern but if we want to win we are going to have to pay.
 

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I think I remember 1sun saying something about a PG being important, about 9 million times, give or take a few.

Look at last nights game, Booker had 12 assists and Canaan carried the scoring roll and the suns looked great. Not the only reason of course but it is an example of how important a PG is, just a backwards example, PG should be dishing the assists and Booker should be scoring.

I'm with elindholm, make a bold move and roll the dice on wall. The nice thing about wall is because of injury history and salary he can likely be had without giving up any real assets.

A player of walls skill with no injury questions on a reasonable contract would cost massive assets if available at all.

Think about:

Wall
Booker
TJ
Bridges
Ayton

2nd unit
Canaan
JJ
Holmes
Suns Pick
?

Its the kind of gamble that if it pays off its a real home run.
 
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And if Wall doesn't pan out we're screwed for the next 3-4 years because of his untradable massive salary. No thanks. I could see that as a backup plan next summer if we can't acquire a better PG in free agency or by trade but conceding our cap space now for John Wall seems like a recipe for disaster. That will kill any chance of movement this summer. We could probably afford 1 semi-decent rotation player with the midlevel exception but that's it.
 

SirStefan32

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Wall would pan out. My only concern is his injuries. It is scary to pay someone that much when they have a history of injuries.
 

taz02

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That's why its a gamble. There is no question it could be a disaster but we aren't becoming contenders by playing it safe.

I guess it all depends on how we view the suns chances of attracting a big time FA. I know we signed Ariza but even if he had played to expectations 15m is an over payment by at least 6-7m.

Players with walls numbers are going to cost max money and will almost certainly have better options than the suns unless they are seriously flawed. This may change if the suns begin winning in a big way where free agents see the suns as a contender.

Who was the last highly coveted FA the suns landed?
 

elindholm

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And if Wall doesn't pan out we're screwed for the next 3-4 years because of his untradable massive salary.

That's true whenever you take on a big contract. Wall, Booker, Durant, doesn't matter. It's a risk you have to accept if you want premium talent.
 

95pro

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Too early to blow the majority of our cap on a wall right now. We aren't going anywhere this year. There are a few free agents coming up the end of this season, and we should be a major player considering how much cap space we'll have.
 

AzStevenCal

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And if Wall doesn't pan out we're screwed for the next 3-4 years because of his untradable massive salary. No thanks. I could see that as a backup plan next summer if we can't acquire a better PG in free agency or by trade but conceding our cap space now for John Wall seems like a recipe for disaster. That will kill any chance of movement this summer. We could probably afford 1 semi-decent rotation player with the midlevel exception but that's it.

Agreed.

I know I'm in the minority on this but I believe we'll regret a Wall trade even if it costs us nothing of value. Even if he never suffers another injury. Even if he plays at his current level for this season and the 5 years that follow. At his best, and ignoring the damage he does to his teammates, he's maybe a top 30 player, yet he's about to be one of the two or three highest players. That alone is a recipe for mediocrity.

We're so bad right now that mediocrity looks like progress to us but paying an above average player as if he were the best player in the league is a blunder. Right now, it's Washington's blunder, hence the reason they are looking to move John Wall. We're a stupid organization, hence the reason some "experts" think we'll be the one to help Washington escape their biggest mistake.
 

elindholm

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Too early to blow the majority of our cap on a wall right now. We aren't going anywhere this year. There are a few free agents coming up the end of this season, and we should be a major player considering how much cap space we'll have.

No major free agent is coming to the Suns until they start to be competitive again. They've been too bad for too long, and there are too many questions about the competence of the leadership, at all levels.
 

Krangodnzr

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That's true whenever you take on a big contract. Wall, Booker, Durant, doesn't matter. It's a risk you have to accept if you want premium talent.

Right...but Wall is more risky when you consider his propensity for injury, his history of lack of physical conditioning, and the issues he has had getting along with teammates.
 

AzStevenCal

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Who was the last highly coveted FA the suns landed?

We did get a lot of the "coveted" fringe players (role players, aging stars etc.) during the Nash years. But since the league created salary structures designed to keep top tier free agents in place, there just hasn't been as much movement as there was 20 years ago. So, very few teams in today's NBA land highly coveted FA's.
 

overseascardfan

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The key to Wall's success would be would he want to get traded here. If he feels motivated to play in PHX, I'm sure his effort will reflect that but if he does not want to play here then do not bother to acquire him. I almost wonder if PHX will go the rest of the year without acquiring a PG in hopes of trying to land Zion with the #1 pick and then trade for a PG like Wall. They wouldn't start paying Wall until next year and they get their PF of the future.
 

Krangodnzr

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The key to Wall's success would be would he want to get traded here. If he feels motivated to play in PHX, I'm sure his effort will reflect that but if he does not want to play here then do not bother to acquire him. I almost wonder if PHX will go the rest of the year without acquiring a PG in hopes of trying to land Zion with the #1 pick and then trade for a PG like Wall. They wouldn't start paying Wall until next year and they get their PF of the future.

A Wall, Booker, Bridges, Williamson, Ayton lineup is ridiculous, I have to admit.

Right now, Williamson looks like he might be the best prospect to come out since Lebron.
 

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