2018/19 Opening Night Depth Chart

Mainstreet

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Yes I still think he should be traded, he’s currently our best and most tradable commodity.

He’s a great scorer, nobody is disputing that. But he is ridiculously one-dimensonable and IF YOU HAVE THE CHANCE to pick up a good to great PG or a player that is better than TJ, you do it. Period.

He’s a good Jamal Crawford-type of player, but the question still remains, will he accept that kind of role this early in his career?

There are a number of Suns players and picks that could be traded for a PG... not just Warren. I value Warren as a player and I am not ready to include him in a trade unless the Suns get significant value in return. I'm hoping the Suns feel likewise.
 

BC867

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You are correct. I was looking at Warren being more dependable than Bender and Chriss at power forward. However, it remains to be seen how the Suns (under Igor) view Bender and Chriss.
The days of "more dependable than ________ and ________ at ________" should be over for the Suns. We no longer will be playing to stay out of last place. We should be playing to advance to the playoffs.
 

Mainstreet

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The days of "more dependable than ________ and ________ at ________" should be over for the Suns. We no longer will be playing to stay out of last place. We should be playing to advance to the playoffs.

Thinking about the playoffs, the Suns are going to have some tough competition in the Western Conference.

For some unknown reason I keep thinking about the Mavericks today. Maybe it's because they were bad like the Suns last season. However, with DeAndre Jordon, Doncic, Smith and Barnes they not going to be a pushover. And the Kings are going to be tougher as well with the addition of Bagley and Giles coming back from injury.

The Suns may be the weakest team at point guard in the Western Conference unless Knight comes around.
 

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The days of "more dependable than ________ and ________ at ________" should be over for the Suns. We no longer will be playing to stay out of last place. We should be playing to advance to the playoffs.

All NBA teams operate that way. It's how you improve your team. You shouldn't bring someone in who isn't better than what you have currently because there's no point in downgrading your roster or a certain position. It doesn't need to be viewed as a negative thing. Depth charts are often figured out by looking at players and saying that player X is better than player Y at BLANK position so they should see more minutes there.
 

elindholm

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All NBA teams operate that way. It's how you improve your team. You shouldn't bring someone in who isn't better than what you have currently because there's no point in downgrading your roster or a certain position.

If only they had thought of that before sacrificing the Heat pick for Bridges. Bridges has looked fine so far, but if he ends up better than Jackson, then it means Jackson was a bad pick; and if he ends up less good than Jackson, then there was no point paying such a high price for him. I get that everyone is into this "positionless" concept now but you need very special circumstances to make it work.
 
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JCSunsfan

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Yes I still think he should be traded, he’s currently our best and most tradable commodity.

He’s a great scorer, nobody is disputing that. But he is ridiculously one-dimensonable and IF YOU HAVE THE CHANCE to pick up a good to great PG or a player that is better than TJ, you do it. Period.

He’s a good Jamal Crawford-type of player, but the question still remains, will he accept that kind of role this early in his career?
For who? I do mind not trading almost ANYONE on this roster, and Warren certainly is tradable, but not just to trade him. He has to bring back something we REALLY need--which would be a true starter quality pg.
 

BC867

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Thinking about the playoffs, the Suns are going to have some tough competition in the Western Conference.

For some unknown reason I keep thinking about the Mavericks today. Maybe it's because they were bad like the Suns last season. However, with DeAndre Jordon, Doncic, Smith and Barnes they not going to be a pushover. And the Kings are going to be tougher as well with the addition of Bagley and Giles coming back from injury.

The Suns may be the weakest team at point guard in the Western Conference unless Knight comes around.
Even if Knight "comes around", does he have the ability to be a strong Point Guard?

Similar to what I posted in #102, better than what he has been doesn't make him the facilitator the Suns need with this primarily young team.
 

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For who? I do mind not trading almost ANYONE on this roster, and Warren certainly is tradable, but not just to trade him. He has to bring back something we REALLY need--which would be a true starter quality pg.
Where did I say we should trade him just to trade him?
 
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JCSunsfan

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Where did I say we should trade him just to trade him?
Well. You didn't exactly. You said he should be traded. I then asked for who, and said that "I" was not interested in trading him just to trade him. If you are not interested in trading him just to trade him, then I assume you have a target in mind and I am wondering who that might be.
 

SirStefan32

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Even if Knight "comes around", does he have the ability to be a strong Point Guard?

Similar to what I posted in #102, better than what he has been doesn't make him the facilitator the Suns need with this primarily young team.

You don't appear to grasp the concept of not being able to have everything right away. We would all like a 25 year-old John Stockton or Steve Nash at point guard, but they are not available. We all get it, BC- none of us are Knight fans here, but that's the best the Suns have right now. They appear to be set at 2 and 3, they just drafted a (supposedly) a franchise Center. They have two youngsters at 4, along with some wings who can play 4. They made good improvements to the roster in one offseason.
There just isn't a point guard to be had right now.
 

Mainstreet

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For who? I do mind not trading almost ANYONE on this roster, and Warren certainly is tradable, but not just to trade him. He has to bring back something we REALLY need--which would be a true starter quality pg.

I didn't expect the Suns to be dependent on Knight entering the season to start at point guard but here we are.

The Suns may still do it before the season starts. For the longest time I thought the Suns would address the PG position in the offseason. Maybe Igor feels comfortable with the situation as his offense may be less dependent on a PG. I still think some team is going to cut or trade a PG that has the potential to start.
 
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JCSunsfan

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I didn't expect the Suns to be dependent on Knight entering the season to start at point guard but here we are.

The Suns may still do it before the season starts. For the longest time I thought the Suns would address the PG position in the offseason. Maybe Igor feels comfortable with the situation as his offense may be less dependent on a PG. I still think some team is going to cut or trade a PG that has the potential to start.
I have my doubts about a true starting pg becoming available, and therefore I don't really want to trade Warren. The Suns seem to think Knight has the potential to surprise in this role.

Maybe the Clippers will cut someone. Teodesic is interesting but they seem set on keeping him and he does not seem to be able to handle starters minutes.

If you can't sign or trade for a pg, you have to develop one, I guess.
 

Mainstreet

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I have my doubts about a true starting pg becoming available, and therefore I don't really want to trade Warren. The Suns seem to think Knight has the potential to surprise in this role.

Maybe the Clippers will cut someone. Teodesic is interesting but they seem set on keeping him and he does not seem to be able to handle starters minutes.

If you can't sign or trade for a pg, you have to develop one, I guess.

I do not believe the Clippers (or possibly some other teams) will keep all their PGs. Teo would be solid insurance. They likely want a second round pick for him. I can see a trade happening but they probably overvalue him now.

Maybe the Suns go to camp and see what it looks like. It's hard for me to believe the Suns add Ariza, Ayton and Bridges and then leave one of the most important positions (point guard) in question. Another option is the Suns wait until the trade deadline to make a trade for one.
 

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Well. You didn't exactly. You said he should be traded. I then asked for who, and said that "I" was not interested in trading him just to trade him. If you are not interested in trading him just to trade him, then I assume you have a target in mind and I am wondering who that might be.
I’m saying that if a team called asking about the possibility of trading, Warren should ALWAYS be on the table and probably the first and best trade piece we would offer.
 

SirStefan32

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I’m saying that if a team called asking about the possibility of trading, Warren should ALWAYS be on the table and probably the first and best trade piece we would offer.

I suspect that he IS on the table. So is everyone else, save for Booker and probably Ayton. The question, once again, is for what?
 

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If only they had thought of that before sacrificing the Heat pick for Bridges. Bridges has looked fine so far, but if he ends up better than Jackson, then it means Jackson was a bad pick; and if he ends up less good than Jackson, then there was no point paying such a high price for him. I get that everyone is into this "positionless" concept now but you need very special circumstances to make it work.

Why couldn't they both be good players?

If Jackson ends up being a great defending, slashing ball handling wing and Bridges becomes a superb 3 and D wing... I don't see why it would make either move pale in light of the other.
 

elindholm

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Why couldn't they both be good players?

If Jackson ends up being a great defending, slashing ball handling wing and Bridges becomes a superb 3 and D wing... I don't see why it would make either move pale in light of the other.

Because there's no way to avoid them competing for the same minutes. Even if they are able to play together for short stretches, you won't ever see them combining for 60+ minutes per game. That means you're not getting the value that you paid for. Imagine limiting Ayton or Booker to 30 minutes per game for the entirety of their careers as Suns teammates.
 

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Because there's no way to avoid them competing for the same minutes. Even if they are able to play together for short stretches, you won't ever see them combining for 60+ minutes per game. That means you're not getting the value that you paid for. Imagine limiting Ayton or Booker to 30 minutes per game for the entirety of their careers as Suns teammates.

But isn't that a good problem to have? Two good players at the same position... you trade one to fill another need.
 

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But isn't that a good problem to have? Two good players at the same position... you trade one to fill another need.

If you mean that having redundant talent is better than having a lack of talent, then yes, it's a "good problem" in that sense. But resources and talent are limited, and position duplication is inefficient. Sure, you can try pull off a favorable trade and resolve the problem that way. But wouldn't it be better to avoid the position overlap in the first place? That was my point.

My other point would be, it's silly to pretend that it's not a problem, whether one thinks of it as a "good problem" or not. And the Suns brought this problem on themselves, as they seem depressingly hell-bent on doing.
 

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Because there's no way to avoid them competing for the same minutes. Even if they are able to play together for short stretches, you won't ever see them combining for 60+ minutes per game. That means you're not getting the value that you paid for. Imagine limiting Ayton or Booker to 30 minutes per game for the entirety of their careers as Suns teammates.

With the way the league is headed it's not hard to see the Suns using Jackson and Bridges together as their forwards. If Ariza can play PF, why can't Jackson if he bulks up some? I'm not saying they should push him that way now but it's certainly a possibility. We don't know what the Heat pick will end up being. While it could be a good trade chip, it doesn't convey for 3 more years and Bridges himself is also a trade chip. If Bridges pans out then he could have more value than that Heat pick in a trade.

If a star became available at the deadline, we could offer Bridges and the Bucks pick for them while Philly can offer a pick that conveys in 3 years? What team would rather have that future pick that could land anywhere in the first round at this point. I'd have to think a number of teams would prefer Bridges to that pick, provided he's not a bust. Bridges is on a rookie deal for the next 4 years also, so it's not like another team wouldn't have him for a significant amount of time either.

It's too soon to call that trade either way. It might have been a bad deal but it might have been really good. We'll have 3 years of Bridges before we even know where that pick lands and based on the Heat's past with Riley running the show, I don't think it will be a lottery pick either.
 

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I didn't expect the Suns to be dependent on Knight entering the season to start at point guard but here we are.

The Suns may still do it before the season starts. For the longest time I thought the Suns would address the PG position in the offseason. Maybe Igor feels comfortable with the situation as his offense may be less dependent on a PG. I still think some team is going to cut or trade a PG that has the potential to start.

I have my doubts about a true starting pg becoming available, and therefore I don't really want to trade Warren. The Suns seem to think Knight has the potential to surprise in this role.

Maybe the Clippers will cut someone. Teodesic is interesting but they seem set on keeping him and he does not seem to be able to handle starters minutes.

If you can't sign or trade for a pg, you have to develop one, I guess.

I think part of why a deal hasn't been done for a PG is that there isn't a clear upgrade at PG available right now and in addition to that, if they traded for someone like Teodosic or even a younger guy with potential like Tyus Jones, that could set Knight back. I know we shouldn't be planning on Knight being great but with how the team is currently assembled, or how it was after we signed Ariza, Knight was the top PG on the roster. That allows him to head into next season with something to prove and feeling like he'll get a fair shot, finally, to show the Suns what he can do for the team as a PG. He's been here 3 years but he hasn't had that chance yet because of his injuries and the 2 PG nonsense.

It would probably set Knight back mentally if we traded for someone who isn't a clear upgrade to take his spot. Of course if we could have added Kemba Walker or someone like him then I think Knight would understand why he's not starting but no one like that was available. At best we might have been able to add an Elfrid Payton type that may be a solid PG if given the chance but it would be just as likely that person wouldn't move the needle also. The direction they've gone has built up Knight some and should have helped repair his confidence, which was shot when he last played, and there's a chance he shows he's capable of being a solid PG for us. If he sucks then we should be able to find a deal similar to what we could right now. What are we losing in waiting and putting Knight in position to rebuild his career? A few wins? We're not a playoff team so that doesn't matter.

I think they've played things well. We're paying Knight regardless, so lets see if he can revert to who he was in Milwaukee. He's done his part by working with our SL team and Kokoskov since Kokoskov was hired. Rewarding him with being the opening day PG isn't that much. He needs to prove he deserved that job and that he can keep it all on his own. If he doesn't? We're in the same spot we are now. Find a deal for another PG. I doubt our options will change that much between now and a month into the season.
 

BC867

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Why couldn't they both be good players?

If Jackson ends up being a great defending, slashing ball handling wing and Bridges becomes a superb 3 and D wing... I don't see why it would make either move pale in light of the other.
You mean like Bender/Chriss or three lead Point Guards?

As Pete Seeger wrote, "When will they ever learn. Oh when will they ever learn?"
 

AzStevenCal

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You mean like Bender/Chriss or three lead Point Guards?

As Pete Seeger wrote, "When will they ever learn. Oh when will they ever learn?"

I like the song but I don't agree with the comparison.
 

BC867

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I like the song but I don't agree with the comparison.
Teammates competing with each other for the lead at one position all season long?

Isn't it better for management to make a knowledgeable decision and, if it ultimately doesn't work, adjust it?

We've seen the results of constant internal competition.
 
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