10 thoughts - Saints game

[Gandhi]

Most of you (if not all) probably watched the Cardinals broadcast with Dave Pasch and Ron Wolfley. I have the NFL Gamepass Europe (since I live in Europe) which means that I have to watch the broadcast from the home team. So you guys most likely have some inside info and perspective that I don’t. Sorry in advance about that.

1 – Man, the Saints' starting offensive line is extraordinary. They completely dominated the Cardinals’ first team defense. In the words of Steve Wilks: Starts up front! Starts up front!

2 – Nobody doubts that Sam Bradford is the starting quarterback presently, right?

3 – Nobody doubts that Josh Rosen is a great prospect for the future, right?

4 – Did you see the blocking from Mason Cole? I really believe in him. Yeah, he was involved in a couple of (what looked like) communication issues, but I don’t think that’s really blocking. That’s assignment- and cohesion stuff.

5 – Did Gerald Hodges just call out the defensive plays all the time he was on the field?

6 – Maybe it’s down to Christian Kirk and Chad Williams for those secondary receiver spots now. I thought both stepped up, while Greg Little did not do much other than making a good block in the third quarter, and Brice Butler didn’t even play. J. J. Nelson did get an important pass interference call against him, but I thought it encapsulated perfectly what he brings on the field: he can go deep but he won’t catch the ball.

7 – I doubt that safey Zeke Turner will make the final cut, but he seems to always be around the ball.

8 – Good thing the Cardinals is such a disciplined team that doesn’t get a lot of penalties. Come on, man!

9 – I really like cornerback Deatrick Nichols. I hope he makes the team.

10 – Well, I must say that Cap Capi is fun to watch. Superstar against third stringers. I would very much like to see him against better players.

 

[jbeecham]

I posted this towards the end of the gameday thread, but I'll repost it here:

I re-watched the 1st half again late last night to key in on a few players/plays, mostly how the OLines played (especially C), scoring plays & who caused turnovers.

Gunter hit the QB as he was throwing that caused the 1st INT that was batted in the air by Scooby Wright & intercepted by Haason Reddick. Budda Baker also helped create this play by coming down across the WRs arms so the ball popped up to where Scooby could get a hand on it.

Mason Cole had 3 bad plays... but overall he held his own.
1) He got bullrushed & dumped on his butt on the 1st passing play. Bradford still had enough time to get the ball off to Fitz on a crossing route for a short gain.
2) He got pushed back badly on the play where Rosen's pass got batted up in the air (by Cole's guy) and Rosen volleyball spiked it down.
3) On Rosen's pass play that should've been called intentional grounding, there was major confusion along the right side of the line & a hurried snap that I'm assuming was to avoid another delay of game penalty. Cole passed his guy to Pugh, who was already tied up with a block, so he had a free run at Rosen & Andre Smith completely whiffed on his man too so he also had a free run at Rosen. Coaches probably should've called a timeout before the snap. The next play was a delay of game & then came the TD strike to Kirk that Rosen threw from the 19 yd line. The 2nd unit OL came in after this (2nd qtr 6 min to halftime) and Boehm played well at C, shotgun snaps were good. Munyer played LG.

DJ's 9 yd TD was made possible by DJ Humphries, a pulling Justin Pugh & TE Seals-Jones. Wolf kept saying it was Iupati, but he was behind the play still at the LOS because he sealed his man to help create the big hole for Pugh & DJ to run through.

Reddick was involved in a lot of tackles on running plays. The Saints ran the ball pretty easily up the middle in the 1st half & the front 4 couldn't stop it so the RB kept getting to the 2nd level where Reddick did a decent job of stopping them (although usually 5 yards downfield already). Hopefully this gets better once we have our starting LBs (Buc & Bynes) playing. Hodges came in later and did a solid job hitting the gaps & meeting the RBs at the line of scrimmage. Reddick did have a pretty good tackle for loss in the 2nd qtr blitzing off the edge, but it was negated by a weak "lowering the helmet" penalty against Dora. Bene Benwikere intercepted the deep pass on the next play so Dora's penalty didn't hurt us.

Bright spots: Bradford, Rosen, Kirk, Chad Williams, TE Gabe Holmes (2 nice catches & drew a PI/Illegal Touching penalty), Gerald Hodges, Dora (recovered 2 fumbles), Benwikere INT

Honorable mentions: JJ Nelson caught 2 short passes & drew a long pass interference. Reddick INT & made some 1-on-1 tackles in space.

 

[kerouac9]

Bradford’s fine as the starter as long as the season is within reach, but he’s not leading this team anywhere. Wouldn’t be surprised to see Rosen starting by Thanksgiving.

Another boring horizontal passing offense from McCoy. When you’re winning, it can be a surgical dismantling of opponents, but if your D can’t keep the opponent within 10 points, it’s a meaningless grind through the 4th quarter to end up losing by 14 instead of 17. Our kicker should be a fantasy sleeper, because it’s hard to say where explosive plays will come from in the red zone.

Reddick seems to run himself into the line and wait for the runner to squirt out. He has the recovery speed, but he gets pushed around if he isn’t fully protected by a lineman.

Humphries is playing well; he’s not requiring help against some ordinary opponents. He has to stay healthy.

Cole needs to be spending a lot of time watching film and getting the adjustments down. Pugh is setting the blocking assignments right now.

 

[wit3card]

The saints announcer are worse than ... gosh ... I listen to wolfley than this guys.

So to the takeaways:

the first team O looks fine, the D had a runstopping problem but else, they did fine.

We have to make all our FG, ST has to be better, yes we are better than the last years, but gosh, they could have cost us.

Bradford and Rosen looked good.
Kanoff did have a good showing so, Glennon is in bad spot, even if he shows something, he might get traded if the price is right, because you never will get anything for Glennon again later on. And if you are down to your 3rd QB ... it can be Kanoff too. And yes if Bradford goes down, you play Rosen, he showed that he is the 2nd best QB on the team and only by real games he can ultimatly grow.

D needs to runstop better, they gave up many big plays and they have to figure that out.

on ST we need better performance, but we need a better understanding and outing, we need them to stop the opponent earlier and we need them to have a chance.

Our WR corps looked good, Fitz - Kirk - Chad Williams - JJ Nelson - Toilbert for now

 

[Harry]

Nichols impressed me too.

Pre-season announcers are pitiful.

 

[Garthshort]

I know a lot of fans have called for Glennon to be traded, but I don't think that there are any takers. He'd have to show something in the next two games to draw ANY interest. JMO.

 

[jbeecham]

I know a lot of fans have called for

Glennon to be traded, but I don't think that there are any takers. He'd have to show something in the next two games to draw ANY interest. JMO.

I think there are a lot of teams that would like to have Glennon as their backup QB over the garbage they currently have, but I don't see any teams that would want him as a starter. Maybe the Bills since McCarron just broke his collarbone, but they'd be better off running with rookie Josh Allen.

Bad Backup QBs that would probably rather have Glennon as #2:
Carolina - Garrett Gilbert, Taylor Heinicke, Kyle Allen
Dallas - Cooper Rush, Mike White, Dalton Sturm
Houston - Brandon Weeden, Stephen Morris, Joe Webb
Cincinnati - Matt Barkley, Jeff Driskel, Logan Woodside
KC - Chad Henne, Matt McGloin, Chase Litton
Giants - Davis Webb, Kyle Lauletta, Alex Tanney
Packers - Brett Hundley, DeShone Kizer, Tim Boyle
Broncos - Paxton Lynch, Chad Kelly
49ers - C.J. Beathard, Nick Mullens, Jack Heneghan
Redskins - Colt McCoy, Kevin Hogan
Titans - Blaine Gabbert, Luke Falk
Seahawks - Austin Davis, Alex McGough
Saints - Taysom Hill, Tom Savage, J.T. Barrett
Patriots - Brian Hoyer, Danny Etling
Rams - Sean Mannion, Brandon Allen, Luis Perez
Lions - Jake Rudock, Matt Cassel
Jaguars - Cody Kessler, Tanner Lee
Raiders - EJ Manuel, Connor Cook
Bears - Chase Daniel, Tyler Bray
Chargers - Geno Smith, Cardale Jones, Nic Shimonek
Bills - Nathan Peterman, AJ McCarron (injured)

Teams with #2QBs that they'd probably rather have than Glennon:
Jets - Josh McCown, Teddy Bridgewater, Sam Darnold (2 good backups, 1 starts)
Browns - Baker Mayfield, Drew Stanton, Brogan Roback (Tyrod Taylor starter)
Ravens - Lamar Jackson, Robert Griffin III, Josh Woodrum
Falcons - Matt Schaub, Garrett Grayson, Kurt Benkert
Vikings - Trevor Siemian, Kyle Sloter, Peter Pujals (debatable)
Colts - Jacoby Brissett, Brad Kaaya, Phillip Walker
Dolphins - Brock Osweiler, David Fales, Bryce Petty
Bucs - Ryan Fitzpatrick, Ryan Griffin, Austin Allen
Steelers - Landry Jones, Mason Rudolph, Joshua Dobbs

 

[kerouac9]

Teams had a bunch of chances to sign Glennon to be their #2 and decided on these other guys.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

I miss the 3-4 already.

 

[ajcardfan]

I miss the 3-4 already.

Right now, I agree. Seems like this will be a more conservative defense. Based on the first two tests, maybe not a bad idea. But damn, I love DC's who blitz the crap out of the other team. ATTACK

 

[Garthshort]

jbeecham, you might be correct about Mike Glennon's value. I don't agree, but we'll find out in a couple of weeks.

1. Does the team want to trade him?
2. Does another team want him?

Your point (inferred) is that it only takes ONE team.

 

[Arz101]

It will be wrong to trade Glennon this year. Cards need all the qbs to get through the year

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[Arz101]

After the game I am excited about Rosen. Watched Mahomes and except on one play he never went through progressions in the chiefs Atlanta game.

I think cards may have dodged not one but two bullets by not drafting Mahomes and Lynch

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[JeffGollin]

It will be wrong to trade Glennon this year. Cards need all the qbs to get through the year

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The day after we trade Glennon, all three remaining Cardinal QB's will get injured and placed on IR...

 

[Arz101]

Lol. I see my mistake

The day after we trade Glennon, all three remaining Cardinal QB's will get injured and placed on IR...

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[Proximo]

The day after we trade Glennon, all three remaining Cardinal QB's will get injured and placed on IR...

And if they did we would still be better off with someone on the street than Glennon.

Glennon is god awful and is not someone anyone should ever want getting snaps for their team.

 

[Proximo]

I think there are a lot of teams that would like to have Glennon as their backup QB over the garbage they currently have, but I don't see any teams that would want him as a starter. Maybe the Bills since McCarron just broke his collarbone, but they'd be better off running with rookie Josh Allen.

Bad Backup QBs that would probably rather have Glennon as #2:
Carolina - Garrett Gilbert, Taylor Heinicke, Kyle Allen
Dallas - Cooper Rush, Mike White, Dalton Sturm
Houston - Brandon Weeden, Stephen Morris, Joe Webb
Cincinnati - Matt Barkley, Jeff Driskel, Logan Woodside
KC - Chad Henne, Matt McGloin, Chase Litton
Giants - Davis Webb, Kyle Lauletta, Alex Tanney
Packers - Brett Hundley, DeShone Kizer, Tim Boyle
Broncos - Paxton Lynch, Chad Kelly
49ers - C.J. Beathard, Nick Mullens, Jack Heneghan
Redskins - Colt McCoy, Kevin Hogan
Titans - Blaine Gabbert, Luke Falk
Seahawks - Austin Davis, Alex McGough
Saints - Taysom Hill, Tom Savage, J.T. Barrett
Patriots - Brian Hoyer, Danny Etling
Rams - Sean Mannion, Brandon Allen, Luis Perez
Lions - Jake Rudock, Matt Cassel
Jaguars - Cody Kessler, Tanner Lee
Raiders - EJ Manuel, Connor Cook
Bears - Chase Daniel, Tyler Bray
Chargers - Geno Smith, Cardale Jones, Nic Shimonek
Bills - Nathan Peterman, AJ McCarron (injured)

Teams with #2QBs that they'd probably rather have than Glennon:
Jets - Josh McCown, Teddy Bridgewater, Sam Darnold (2 good backups, 1 starts)
Browns - Baker Mayfield, Drew Stanton, Brogan Roback (Tyrod Taylor starter)
Ravens - Lamar Jackson, Robert Griffin III, Josh Woodrum
Falcons - Matt Schaub, Garrett Grayson, Kurt Benkert
Vikings - Trevor Siemian, Kyle Sloter, Peter Pujals (debatable)
Colts - Jacoby Brissett, Brad Kaaya, Phillip Walker
Dolphins - Brock Osweiler, David Fales, Bryce Petty
Bucs - Ryan Fitzpatrick, Ryan Griffin, Austin Allen
Steelers - Landry Jones, Mason Rudolph, Joshua Dobbs

I cannot believe you really consider Glennon better than Barkley, Chad Henne, Colt McCoy, Gabbert, Hoyer, Geno Smith, Chad Kelly or Nathan Peterman.

I would far rather go with Kizer, Rudduck, Taysom Hill or Lauletta over him too, because they actually have potential.

With a 4 million dollar contract I really don't think anyone would trade for Glennon, in fact I think the majority of teams laughed at the Cardinals when they signed him in the first place.

 

[jbeecham]

I cannot believe you really consider Glennon better than Barkley, Chad Henne, Colt McCoy, Gabbert, Hoyer, Geno Smith, Chad Kelly or Nathan Peterman.

I would far rather go with Kizer, Rudduck, Taysom Hill or Lauletta over him too, because they actually have potential.

With a 4 million dollar contract I really don't think anyone would trade for Glennon, in fact I think the majority of teams laughed at the Cardinals when they signed him in the first place.

I think he could definitely be considered an upgrade over most of those guys. Glennon looked like trash in pre-season game 1 though. I guess I base it off of his 1st 2 years in the league before the Bucs drafted Winston.

2013 - 13 games, 59.4% completion (not good), 2608 yards, 19 TDs, 9 INTs, 83.9 Rating, sacked 40 times in 13 games
2014 - 6 games, 57.6% completion (again not good), 1417 yards, 10 TDs, 6 INTs, 83.3 Rating, sacked 16 times in 6 games

Since then, he's barely played football. In 2016, he played in parts of 2 games & went 10/11 (90.9%) with a TD & 0 INTs & then in 2017 he was a lame duck on a horrible Bears team & got pulled after 4 games while completing 66.4% of his passes.

Those Buccaneer teams were trash & he still put up decent numbers against real NFL competition. How many backups on that list have that on their resume?

 

[Gandhi]

Gunter hit the QB as he was throwing that caused the 1st INT that was batted in the air by Scooby Wright & intercepted by Haason Reddick. Budda Baker also helped create this play by coming down across the WRs arms so the ball popped up to where Scooby could get a hand on it.

Jbechaam, I actually thought about having 15 thoughts in this thread, and one of those I deleted in the end was how Gunter and Olsen Pierre played. I came away intrigued by the depth at defensive tackle. If only they had the same depth with the edge rushers.

 

[Gandhi]

I miss the 3-4 already.

There’s not really any difference, SoCal. I have written about it several times, but since I honestly don’t want to find those post, I will just say that the gist is that every team uses different fronts on different down and distance. The Cardinals uses both the 4-3- and the 3-4-lineups multiple times throughout any game.

The important stuff is how you play coverage, gap assignments, blitz packages and other stuff like that. Those things a very different from coach to coach. Not to put words into your mouth, but I don’t think you miss the 3-4-lineup. I think you miss how Bowles and Bettcher deployed their defenses in those aspects.

 

[Gandhi]

Bradford’s fine as the starter as long as the season is within reach, but he’s not leading this team anywhere. Wouldn’t be surprised to see Rosen starting by Thanksgiving.

Another boring horizontal passing offense from McCoy. When you’re winning, it can be a surgical dismantling of opponents, but if your D can’t keep the opponent within 10 points, it’s a meaningless grind through the 4th quarter to end up losing by 14 instead of 17. Our kicker should be a fantasy sleeper, because it’s hard to say where explosive plays will come from in the red zone.

I agree with that, Kerouac, other than I don’t think it’s boring. Bradford has, in my opinion, never been a quarterback that aggressively attacks the field, and thus I don’t expect him to be that guy. That doesn’t mean, though, that he can’t lead a team back in a game from behind. It just means that he won’t do it fast.

Another point I think is suitable here is that Steve Wilks has said numerous times that he wants the offense to beat the opposition with long, sustaining drives that frustrates and takes out the spirit in the opponent. In that perspective Bradford’s style of play could be perfect.

 

[Chopper0080]

Our run fits are a LB issue.

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[oaken1]

Mike Glennon isnt going anywhere.

He was signed to be the long term backup/stopgap QB. But Josh Rosen was drafted to be the long term starter.

There are only so many quality reps to go around in camp and game prep. Obviously Bradford has to get reps with the first team. Due to his position as top draft pick and QBOF Rosen has to get reps with the ones, as well as the twos.
Mike Glennon, as the long term backup... gets reps with the twos, and splits reps with Kanoff with the threes....

But he has shown success in the nfl...not "The next Drew Brees" kind of success obviously.... but 'Bottom five starter/top five backup" type success surely.

I like what I have seen from Kanoff... but lets be honest. Had he been going up against the first team defenses he would have more picks than completions.

Right now Rosen is getting Glennons reps in order to bring him up to NFL speed. But when final cuts come it will be Bradford, Rosen, and Glennon on the roster and Kanoff sliding to the practice squad.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

The day after we trade Glennon, all three remaining Cardinal QB's will get injured and placed on IR...

Which will most likely make zero difference this year.... We could have an up and coming Kurt Warner sitting in the 3-4 spot... And QB will not be the reason we'll struggle to win 6-7 games.

As standard operating procedure.... The Cardinals have again failed to fix our terrible O-line.

 

[Proximo]

Which will most likely make zero difference this year.... We could have an up and coming Kurt Warner sitting in the 3-4 spot... And QB will not be the reason we'll struggle to win 6-7 games.

As standard operating procedure.... The Cardinals have again failed to fix our terrible O-line.

I don't really think it is terrible. The starters anyway. Really most of the reason they have looked so bad the last few years is they were asked to protect constantly on 5 and 7 step drops with little additional help from the backs and tight ends.

Just the scheme change to a quick passing game makes them look far more competent already.

I don't like Andre Smith, but I think we can get by this year with him.

At this point I am actually much more worried about our run defense than I am our offense.