So, how do you build a team?

JCSunsfan

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It looks like 3 stars and scrubs is not working very well in Miami and New York, while less stellar players, more depth and better chemistry is doing great for San Antonio. San Antonio is amazing. Its virtually the same team that the Suns bounced from the playoffs last year, yet they have improved dramatically.

Boston has three stars but on any other team Ray Allen would not be considered a top level star now. Pierce would also be considered a half step lower than Lebron, Kobe, and even Melo. Even Garnett is not what he once was. Yet Boston has good chemistry and better role players.

So, which way should the Suns go? Should they blow it all up, seek star players through the draft and free agency, and hang depth?
 

itlnsunsfan

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In Buddhism, everything is called for in moderation, including moderation. Balance is everything. Balance
 

Magnus

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Imo, if you have a lot of stars on a team, like the Heat, then every attack is a what if. All of them want and need the ball, so if Bosh misses, you wonder what if Wade had the ball.. If Wade misses you wonder what would happen if he'd passed to Lebron.. Not that it's bad to have options, but the other players basically stand there and watch one guy take care of business. And basketball is teamwork. So, for a team to be succesful, you have to get all the players involved. If all the players are happy with their role, and can ball even moderately, they can be trained to excell in that particular role that they are supposed to do.

I think it's enough to have 1 superstar and 1 marginal star player, and you have a legit backbone to build around, but not thinking about what those players need, but what the team needs. Cause a superstar will work with whatever you throw in the mix.
 

AzStevenCal

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I'm not a fan of the way this summer went down but I think it's way too early to judge the Miami experiment. What Boston did when they brought their stars together was unique, normally a collection of players doesn't become a team over night. That nucleus, if it stays healthy, will become a championship team in a year or two IMO. And once they get there, they'll be hard to dethrone until age takes it toll.

Steve
 

mojorizen7

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Imo, if you have a lot of stars on a team, like the Heat, then every attack is a what if. All of them want and need the ball, so if Bosh misses, you wonder what if Wade had the ball.. If Wade misses you wonder what would happen if he'd passed to Lebron.. Not that it's bad to have options, but the other players basically stand there and watch one guy take care of business. And basketball is teamwork. So, for a team to be succesful, you have to get all the players involved. If all the players are happy with their role, and can ball even moderately, they can be trained to excell in that particular role that they are supposed to do.

I think it's enough to have 1 superstar and 1 marginal star player, and you have a legit backbone to build around, but not thinking about what those players need, but what the team needs. Cause a superstar will work with whatever you throw in the mix.
Good post. There's a difference between throwing a bunch of superstars together on an Olympic team versus a single NBA team and expecting spectacular & immediate results.

I dont need to recycle my thoughts on what i think it takes to build a winning team....or what i think the Suns should do(or should have done)....so i'll leave it blank.....sort of ;)

B _ _ _ it U_

and focus on...

D_ _ _ _ _ _ and R_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _. :)
 

shazaam6

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First get an owner who is a banker to offend, dismantle, sell low and buy high. The rest will take care of itself. Just kidding.
 

AfroSuns

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Good post. There's a difference between throwing a bunch of superstars together on an Olympic team versus a single NBA team and expecting spectacular & immediate results.

I dont need to recycle my thoughts on what i think it takes to build a winning team....or what i think the Suns should do(or should have done)....so i'll leave it blank.....sort of ;)

B _ _ _ it U_

and focus on...

D_ _ _ _ _ _ and R_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _. :)

Dont forget they almost always are going to get a good game out of every team, every night especially with the type of infamous fanfare the Heat introduced the players after the signing. Which in retrospect will mean all their efforts night in, night out.
 

bankybruce

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You get really lucky, get the first pick and select a stud PG while having a up and coming C. Clear some cap space, sign a above average PF and the right role players. You can at least sweep the Heat while doing that even with a terrible starting SG. Suns already have the C part and role players.
 
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AzStevenCal

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You get really lucky, get the first pick and select a stud PG while having a up and coming C. Clear some cap space, sign a above average PF and the right role players. You can at least sweep the Heat while doing that even with a terrible starting SG. Suns already have the C part and role players.

You're selling us short. Not only do we have the "C part and role players", we also have you matched at the "terrible starting SG" position.

Steve
 

biggedge

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You get really lucky, get the first pick and select a stud PG while having a up and coming C. Clear some cap space, sign a above average PF and the right role players. You can at least sweep the Heat while doing that even with a terrible starting SG. Suns already have the C part and role players.


Don't forget having one of the best defensive minds in the game as your coach. I don't think Thibodeau has been getting enough love this season.
 

Errntknght

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If you're a new coach taking over a team you are not going to have a chance to build it from the top down - meaning you select your 'superstars' first, then stars and then add around them. Now then there's a fluke event like Miami, except the players did most of it. Boston might have been a fluke, too, but it might have been the result of good long term planning.

It can take a few years to get the top players of the kind you want so in the meantime you select players that are much more available - the subs, youngsters and scrubs. If you don't know what kind of players you want on your team, you're in the wrong job. Work your butt off getting players that fit what you're looking for, or, at least, have some chance of panning out. Don't waste time with players that don't fit even at a bargain price, they'll just clutter the team. Build up your scouting organization if its weak, which it probably will be. Use your scouting organization in every way you can - it won't be good if its doing little. Scout for the future, too, for guys that are two, three years away and plan how you can maneuver to get them.

Pretty much the same thing holds for your assistant coaches - build them up and make use of them. Of course they should hold by basketball principles close to yours and fill in your weaknesses, whatever they are.

And for Pete's sake don't worry about some formula regarding the numbers of stars, superstars - there's no magic distribution of the talent among the players. You just want the best players you can get that fit together within your concept - their designations by the media will come in due time.
 

Lorenzo

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keep nash. get him a solid BUP PG, surround him by better talent.that's the route I would take.

they might consider trading nash, but his value diminishes with every year. if getting rid of nash backfires, fans won't have reason to come watch the games at the same volume.

it kind of sucks that the window closed on them with those great players that they had, but poor management took them down IMO. if they would have managed the players that they had better they may have been able to sustain that team.

the reason I don't dump nash is you want to reload. you don't want to have a down period for your fans or your production. that can lead you down a deadly path.
 
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JS22

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This team would be a LOT better with Richardson. Richardson and Nash worked together perfectly. I know he's 30 and hasn't done much in ORL, but I'd love to see him back next year.

Plus, Frye has actually become a legit PF since the arrival of Gortat - who has taken some of the pressure off of him. I actually think the Suns could make a decent run with Richardson back next year and everything else relatively the same.
 

Mainstreet

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IMO, you get lucky in the draft and draft a player with star potential, meaning he has the athletic skills and drive that may get him there. See Amare. Then you sign a top quality player in FA. This was Nash. After that try to find a player that has been underrated on another teams roster and somehow get him signed through a trade or whatever. Also one of the things the Suns need to think about is getting younger players.
 

Chaplin

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There are many ways to do it, but I know one thing: You don't rely on message board posters to get your advice. ;)
 

Lorenzo

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IMO, you get lucky in the draft and draft a player with star potential, meaning he has the athletic skills and drive that may get him there. See Amare. Then you sign a top quality player in FA. This was Nash. After that try to find a player that has been underrated on another teams roster and somehow get him signed through a trade or whatever. Also one of the things the Suns need to think about is getting younger players.
great point mainstreet. draft is some skill...some luck. you want to follow the business model of the successful franchises. do what you did in the past with the suns. because they have won a lot for a long time. winning is vital even if you don't win it all. it beats being a bottom feeder. ask cleveland. I went through this in the 90's when the mavs sucked so bad for so long i had to just cheer against jordan for a decade.

at the end of the day you want to avoid losing at all cost. but you gotta have some luck in the draft. look at the spurs/lakers...even dallas has had a lot of luck it just hasn't culminated with a ring. but no one thought much of dirk and nash on their media day. we thought...oh geez this is the best you got nellie??? look what it turned out to be.
 

sunsfan88

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You certainly don't build it by trading away all your good role players for one superstar. 2 superstars + complete scrubs = mediocre

Take the Knicks for example. Gettin blown out 32-9....and its barely the 2nd QTR.
 

AfroSuns

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^^^ 2minutes into 3rd qtr and they are only down by 3. Way too early to assume a blowout,it is a 48minute game after all
 

Mainstreet

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You certainly don't build it by trading away all your good role players for one superstar. 2 superstars + complete scrubs = mediocre

Take the Knicks for example. Gettin blown out 32-9....and its barely the 2nd QTR.

It depends upon who the two players are. If the Knicks had been able to trade for a healthy Deron Williams instead of Anthony, the Knicks would roll.
 

sunsfan88

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^^^ 2minutes into 3rd qtr and they are only down by 3. Way too early to assume a blowout,it is a 48minute game after all
Still lost and gave up 100 pts to the worst offensive team in the NBA.
 

BC867

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Guard Luther Head was waived by the Kings. He is a good 3 point shooter. I wonder if the Suns would have any interest. The Suns really need another shooter.
But we don't need another Wing.

I'd rather see Dudley in a three-way rotation with Carter and Hill at the SG/SF positions, with Pietrus as needed, than adding any more players.

Actually, I'd rather see Carter in a three-way rotation with Dudley and Hill at the SG/SF positions.
 
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OP
JCSunsfan

JCSunsfan

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It depends upon who the two players are. If the Knicks had been able to trade for a healthy Deron Williams instead of Anthony, the Knicks would roll.

I think you have to be careful not to be enamored by volume scorers like Iverson was or Melo is. They look like superstars, but their teams suffer. Also, at least 3/5ths of your starting lineup needs to be at least average defenders.

Actually, I am pretty pleased at this point with Gortat and Frye. A really athletic sf in the Shawn Marion mode would be great.

I agree with the earlier poster, that Jason Richardson had developed a chemistry with Nash. To bad Nash is probably not going to be back.
 

Mainstreet

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But we don't need another Wing.

I'd rather see Dudley in a three-way rotation with Carter and Hill at the SG/SF positions, with Pietrus as needed, than adding any more players.

Actually, I'd rather see Carter in a three-way rotation with Dudley and Hill at the SG/SF positions.

Well the Suns need a SG that shoots well with 3 point range. Luther Head fills that scenario. That said, I do not think the Suns will do anything. In regard to the player he would replace, I think Head could take Pietrus' minutes.
 

BC867

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As a red-hot Suns fan since 1970 -- that's 41 years -- and rooting for a team that has been known, first as a finesse team, then small-ball . . . which is the reason we don't get our share of the ref's calls . . .

I am ecstatic that, in our triple-overtime game vs. the Lakers tonight, our two power positions had the following stats (our highest scorers and rebounders in the game).

Fry.......32 points and 13 rebounds
Gortat...24 points and 16 rebounds

Along with

Nash.....19 points and 20 assists
and Hill's 10 rebounds and defense

I've been waiting a long time for our power to move from the backcourt to the front court. I hope our Front Office has the skill to build around Gortat and Frye as our foundation.
 

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