For the sake of clarity. Creative how?
Week 17-Arizona Cardinals off season thread. 05/1/23-05/7/23
- Thread starter Ronin
- Start date
For the sake of clarity. Creative how?
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
I'm not going to re-hash what you've read and categorically rejected as "illogical" a thousand times before. You don't deserve my time now.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Murray
The Cardinals have been plenty creative....but creative for cap purposes generally means pushing money out to future years which is a REALLY DUMB idea during a rebuild.
Before last season, the Eagles pushed out a TON of money to future years. Some of these contracts will affect the cap all the way (iirc) to the 2027 season. If you think the Cardinals should the same, you're crazy brother.
The only thing you have suggested they could do is offer more upfront cash.
That isn't a solution. Firstly because I don't think players would choose an inferior team and a sure fire losing season over a different distribution of cash. It's cash they are going to get anyway, it's millions either way, I don't think any player is going to choose the Cards over practically any other teams because they get $2m more upfront cash they get down the road anyway.
Second, any agent worth their salt is using all contract offers to get the best deal from the players prefered destinations. If the Cards offer more up front money, or more guarantees, the agent will just use that to get the Niners, Cowboys, Saints or whoever to improve their deal.
The only way the Cards could win such a fight is to massively overpay beyond what any other team has on the table.
If there is some other creative way you mentioned that I've missed I apologise.
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Right, because we can't be crazy and frontload with the cap. Nah, it ain't crazy having 100 mill in cap space for one FA period next year, right?
For the record, you don't think we could have signed one or two long-term FAs this year without seriously harming our rebuild moving forward, right? This is your opinion?
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Sure, man. Whatever you say.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Murray
This is how you get Jordan Philips'
Honestly I don't have all of the information for the why. This could be a situation where Monti is looking at this thing and the whole roster needs a full reevaluation this year.
Next year the Cardinals are projected to have $40 million in cap space. It's a nice amount, but not a ton of money. But 2025 will be a full on crazy amount, so in 2024, you can push a lot of money to that year.
Poop. I thought he was younger for some reason.
Maybe getting him crossed with Ryan Kelly who was supposed to be available for trade? I think he's 29/30.
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
Really begs the question why we're pinching pennies this season only to position ourselves to have the 19th-most effective cap space in the NFL in 2024. That number will shift significantly if we do something with Nuk and/or Budda ($43 million in cap hold in 2024) this year. Zach Ertz and James Conner also have a 2024 cap hold of nearly $21 million.
We're so stupid.
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
The ghost of Jordan Phillips has the sixth-highest cap number among the 2023 Arizona Cardinals.
This is the salary cap table entering the 2017 season when the salary cap was $167m.
$100m with the cap pushing $250m is not an unreasonable amount.
$100m in 2024 is about $68m in 2017 and there were like 4 teams with that kind of money to spend.
The Brown's carried over $59m of this into 2018. We don't have to spend it all. It obviously depends on how good the FA market is and if they fit our needs.
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RON_IN_OC
https://www.ronevansrealty.com
Probably because they have to creatively tank. You think they want to risk tanking allegations, like Miami, and lose draft picks they just worked hard to accumulate? If you jettison every single piece of talent at one time, you will be investigated for tanking. Their best bet, IMO, if they want to shed these guys before 2024, is to do it during the season, when the record is bad and the excuse can be made that they aren't going to win anything...more like how a MLB or NBA team would conduct business.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
Yeah...I project it more of 88.84 mil next year.
43 mil base.
Add 14.9 mil moving on from Hopkins
Add 14.2 mil moving on from Budda
Add 7.55 mil moving on from Ertz
Add 5.490 mil moving on from Conner
Add 2.8 mil moving on from Gardeck
Add 3.5 mil moving on from Prater
None of that includes
adding 9 mil moving on from The Captain
adding 2.235 mil moving on from Froholdt
Dayman
ASFN Addict
So no free agents would sign here this year because they know the team will be very bad. But next year, after this very bad season happens as predicted, free agents will want to come here at a reasonable price for some reason? Am I getting this right? Are we just going to put a sign on the door that says "not tanking anymore" and then they will come running?
Or is the main reason for sitting out FA because Monti appears to be the only GM I can remember who needs to observe the team for a full season before he makes any serious roster moves aside from the draft? And have all of his own hirings in place, which again, seems very rare.
Both of these seem like pretty weak excuses for sitting out (or getting shut out of) free agency for the second consecutive year.
Or is the main reason for sitting out FA because Monti appears to be the only GM I can remember who needs to observe the team for a full season before he makes any serious roster moves aside from the draft? And have all of his own hirings in place, which again, seems very rare.
Both of these seem like pretty weak excuses for sitting out (or getting shut out of) free agency for the second consecutive year.
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
in no way have I advocated pushing cap hits into many years to come. Try again. If we're supposed to have gobs of it next year, it wouldn't have hurt us at all--and easily could have benefited us--in signing some talent to start the roster rebuild. Not kicking the can down the road years to come. Kinda the opposite of Jordan Philips, so yeah. No. LOL.
CardNots
ASFN Lifer
I do know this, I wouldn’t let Stout put together my budget.
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
This is fake news. Miami lost draft picks for tampering with Tom Brady and Sean Payton, not for tanking. Tell me another story about why it's good for the Cards to be terrible this year while not positioning themselves to be good in 2024.
Yeah, but you're giving some of that money to Hollywood or some other WR who's going to start opposite MHJ (ostensibly).
Then you're also looking for a starting TE and another starting two starting OL; that combined probably offsets the money you save getting rid of five of the top 15 players from the 2022 team.
It makes no sense why we couldn't use some of today's money to invest in that future. Contra @BritCard I don't think OL really care about competing for a playoff spot and they have to stats to get tracked.
And 2025 cap space is obviously a mirage; we have 20 players under contract in 2025. There'll be more assuming the entire draft class makes the roster. The only current veterans under contract heading into 2025 are Kyler, Jalen Thompson, and the Captain, whom you want to release the year before.
Our sixth-highest paid player as of today is dead cap. If we trade Nuk after June 1 Dead Cap will have the highest salary on the team.
But don't worry, Dead Cap is already scheduled to be our seventh-highest paid player in 2024 at $8.3 million for the ghosts of Rodney Hudson and J.J. Watt.
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Agreed! I do also know that Monti's way isn't the only sensible way. Anyone saying otherwise is either "lying or selling something," to quote a great movie
Harry
ASFN Consultant and Senior Writer
Regardless of what they announced I think the penalty was stiffer because the league was already being pressured to consider a tanking penalty. Miami was dumb enough to virtually announce they were tanking.
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
I think they had the goods on him for paying to lose. That's the "integrity of the game" piece.
The NFL couldn't have cared less about the Browns intentionally being bad from 2015 to 2017.
WisconsinCard
Herfin BIg Time
Agreed, because IMO they don't know if they have square holes or round holes yet. And yes, they signed $1M pegs all day long until they figure it out. I'm no saying this is the right way to go, I'm just saying I'm willing to be patient and find out. Light at the end of the tunnel may be a train as said by @schutd, but I'm going to stand and find out.
CardNots
ASFN Lifer
I agree with ya more times than not.Agreed! I do also know that Monti's way isn't the only sensible way. Anyone saying otherwise is either "lying or selling something," to quote a great movie
They have a plan but so did prior management.
It’s certainly not too early for guessing and criticizing the moves or lack of. Way too early to call them out until games are played.
My thing is week to week game plans, team execution and game management. Doing those well will expose upgrades needed.
so far I love being frugal versus paying too much for long contracts
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Hopefully if Gannon and his staff is good at those week to week game plans and game management, they will do a good job of exposing where upgrades are needed. I much rather would have had a few of those upgrades in place already so we don't have half a roster to build next year.
I get where you're coming from with frugality versus Keim's profligacy, but it wasn't an either/or proposition. FA wasn't feast or famine I'd have at least liked a nice, filling snack.
Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
I’ve just stopped replying to those posts. They’re so absurd it is no longer a reasonable conversation.
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