Flight Plan 2022

Krangodnzr

Captain of Team Murray
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
34,280
Reaction score
30,229
Location
Orange County, CA
Sorry this comment is just stupid and has zero truth or evidence to support it.
There is PLENTY of evidence. Like every year evidence.

The Cardinals paid what? $2.5 million for an 18 TD player.

It's just not histrionic whining which for some reason is all you appreciate and gravitate towards. (Im being a jerk because you are. I very much actually respect you, just don't appreciate you saying that my comment is "stupid".)
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
59,937
Reaction score
51,286
Location
SoCal
There is PLENTY of evidence. Like every year evidence.

The Cardinals paid what? $2.5 million for an 18 TD player.

It's just not histrionic whining which for some reason is all you appreciate and gravitate towards. (Im being a jerk because you are. I very much actually respect you, just don't appreciate you saying that my comment is "stupid".)
Apologies for the “stupid.” The irony is I also actually respect you but your desire to call out people raises my ire and I just can’t let it go. I should, but I don’t.
 

Jetstream Green

Kool Aid with a touch of vodka
Joined
Feb 5, 2003
Posts
29,459
Reaction score
16,598
Location
San Antonio, Texas
Making an entire argument on value based on sacks, lol.
Pressures are the stat which counts the most, and if you can get the sack so much the better. The problem with Chandler was his run stopping ability, or effort, was beyond subpar. Yes, teams will gameplan around him initially in a game till he shows he cannot and then you will notice they adjust their gameplan to an extent, but as soon as he has a positive play they worry again because he's freaking Chandler Jones. I think a guy like Watt and Green have that same effect because of the name they've earned and why just being them does carry some benefits. So, we did lose something valuable in Chandler Jones, but it was time to move on for what he was able to get
 

ASUCHRIS

ONE HEART BEAT!!!
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Posts
14,856
Reaction score
11,410
You jest, but Reddick didn't do crap until given the chance.

Gardeck is physically very similar to Reddick, maybe he just needs the same chance?

At least Gardeck has a 7 sack season which was more than Reddick had before getting a shot.
Of course he jests, nobody serious would even dare to compare a Dennis Gardeck to Reddick. It's absurd.
 

Krangodnzr

Captain of Team Murray
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
34,280
Reaction score
30,229
Location
Orange County, CA
Of course he jests, nobody serious would even dare to compare a Dennis Gardeck to Reddick. It's absurd.
I agree to compare the two (especially now after Reddick has back-to-back productive seasons) is a bit absurd.

But Kennard and Gardeck DO have NFL production on their resume, and adding Thomas and Sanders cushions the blow a bit, especially considering that you could essentially play a combo of at least three of the four on the field at the same time, and thats not considering steady eddie Markus Golden's production as well.
 

ASUCHRIS

ONE HEART BEAT!!!
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Posts
14,856
Reaction score
11,410
Pressures are the stat which counts the most, and if you can get the sack so much the better.
Care to guess who had the most pressures on the team?

He still put up double digit sack numbers (10.5) to go with 41 tackles, 26 quarterback hits, and six forced fumbles (the second-highest total of his career).

One of four players with six forced fumbles on the year, Jones also finished ninth in the NFL in quarterback hits. Jones also had 45 pressures and 25 hurries on the year, which aren't among the league leaders -- even though the pass rusher was excellent at getting to the quarterback and creating turnovers.

People advocating that a Gardeck/Kennard rotation will be able to approximate what Jones did and brought in terms of disruption is just staggering.


The problem with Chandler was his run stopping ability, or effort, was beyond subpar.
Have you seen Markus on the other side?

So, we did lose something valuable in Chandler Jones, but it was time to move on for what he was able to get
I mean, if you're comfortable with rotating a bunch of below average players at the most important positions on D (CB and pass rusher), good for you.

I think it's incredible that we have no answers at the most premium positions on D, with no cap space to fill those holes. (and a QB still on his rookie deal!)

At least we addressed neither position early in the draft, and used a day 2 pick on our deepest position on the team. Keim!
 

ASUCHRIS

ONE HEART BEAT!!!
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Posts
14,856
Reaction score
11,410
But Kennard and Gardeck DO have NFL production on their resume, and adding Thomas and Sanders cushions the blow a bit, especially considering that you could essentially play a combo of at least three of the four on the field at the same time, and thats not considering steady eddie Markus Golden's production as well.
Kennard has proven to be barely playable. He was dumped by one of the worst teams in football, and barely got reps over total scrubs on our D.

Gardeck had an intriguing stretch before his injury, and was really bad last year as well. He's a special teams ace and can give you maybe 10 or so reps as purely a pass rusher, but again, there is a reason his snaps have been limited.

Thomas and Sanders are rookies, and not drafted in the first 50 picks. To expect anything out of them this year is complete folly.

Our offense better be prepared to score a lot of points, because barring some incredible improvement by our young guys on D, we have a lot more question marks than answers.
 

Krangodnzr

Captain of Team Murray
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
34,280
Reaction score
30,229
Location
Orange County, CA
Kennard has proven to be barely playable. He was dumped by one of the worst teams in football, and barely got reps over total scrubs on our D.
Heh Chandler Jones and Markus Golden, both double digit sack guys are total scrubs...yeah okay.
Gardeck had an intriguing stretch before his injury, and was really bad last year as well. He's a special teams ace and can give you maybe 10 or so reps as purely a pass rusher, but again, there is a reason his snaps have been limited.
He barely played...because he was coming off a major injury (that usually takes about a year to come back from fully) and he was playing behind total scrubs, Markus Golden and Chandler Jones.
Thomas and Sanders are rookies, and not drafted in the first 50 picks. To expect anything out of them this year is complete folly.
Every team in the league expects SOMETHING out of their rookies.
Our offense better be prepared to score a lot of points, because barring some incredible improvement by our young guys on D, we have a lot more question marks than answers.
Agree on this point completely.
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
36,523
Reaction score
25,971
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Heh Chandler Jones and Markus Golden, both double digit sack guys are total scrubs...yeah okay.

He barely played...because he was coming off a major injury (that usually takes about a year to come back from fully) and he was playing behind total scrubs, Markus Golden and Chandler Jones.

Every team in the league expects SOMETHING out of their rookies.

Agree on this point completely.
Gardeck played 173 defensive snaps last year. That's almost twice as many snaps as he had in 2021. In the last quarter of the season he was playing about 25% of the defensive snaps.
 

football karma

Happy in the pretense of knowledge
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Posts
14,742
Reaction score
12,876
He's talking about the other player that they were discussing. McBride was their guy though.

based on Gambo on draft day it was Cam Juergens, C Nebraska over McBride.

based on Flight Plan, they were torn but McBride was in the lead.

what i found interesting / maybe contrived / a bit odd:

they have had months to prepare -- and had McBride ranked high -- and Keim is doing the "how tall is he? what was his 40?" thing as the pick approached.

another observation: couple shots of Keim informing Mike B who they were taking, describing the player.

Feel like the org reads this board and reacts to things -- "Mike meddles....".
 

ASUCHRIS

ONE HEART BEAT!!!
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Posts
14,856
Reaction score
11,410
Heh Chandler Jones and Markus Golden, both double digit sack guys are total scrubs...yeah okay.
You misunderstand me - I was referring to the pupu platter options at DE/OLB at the end of the roster. Jones is an above average starter, Golden a bit below, but unless Zach Allen turns into something, it's an incredibly weak pass rush.
He barely played...because he was coming off a major injury (that usually takes about a year to come back from fully)
Again, Gardeck is a very nice special teams player, but to expect him to carry the load with Kennard is just setting yourself up for disappointment.
Every team in the league expects SOMETHING out of their rookies.
It's proven to be a really bad strategy with a Vance Joseph D. Even our first round picks on D barely contribute!

I couldn't believe that Jones played over 800 snaps last year. What makes you even more sick is guess who was #1 in snap count? Hicks, with over 1k.

Collins and Simmons better be ready to produce, because there are a lot of snaps that will have to be eaten up.
 

Jetstream Green

Kool Aid with a touch of vodka
Joined
Feb 5, 2003
Posts
29,459
Reaction score
16,598
Location
San Antonio, Texas
Care to guess who had the most pressures on the team?

He still put up double digit sack numbers (10.5) to go with 41 tackles, 26 quarterback hits, and six forced fumbles (the second-highest total of his career).

One of four players with six forced fumbles on the year, Jones also finished ninth in the NFL in quarterback hits. Jones also had 45 pressures and 25 hurries on the year, which aren't among the league leaders -- even though the pass rusher was excellent at getting to the quarterback and creating turnovers.

People advocating that a Gardeck/Kennard rotation will be able to approximate what Jones did and brought in terms of disruption is just staggering.



Have you seen Markus on the other side?


I mean, if you're comfortable with rotating a bunch of below average players at the most important positions on D (CB and pass rusher), good for you
.

I think it's incredible that we have no answers at the most premium positions on D, with no cap space to fill those holes. (and a QB still on his rookie deal!)

At least we addressed neither position early in the draft, and used a day 2 pick on our deepest position on the team. Keim!
1) Chandler had the most pressures and that is why I stated that because people were judging him by sacks alone
2) Did I say Markus was better at stopping the run? No. And could you explain to me how Markus's ability to the stop the run changes my factual statement on Chandler
3) I did not say I was happy he was gone, and I doubt the Cardinals are happy, but it was a question of money and where he was at in his career. BTW, the season when he was out the Cards actually did generate a very effective pass rush by committee
4) Chris, chill out
 
Last edited:

Krangodnzr

Captain of Team Murray
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
34,280
Reaction score
30,229
Location
Orange County, CA
You misunderstand me - I was referring to the pupu platter options at DE/OLB at the end of the roster. Jones is an above average starter, Golden a bit below, but unless Zach Allen turns into something, it's an incredibly weak pass rush.
Pass rush doesn't have to be about 1-2 players though....but I do agree, the Cardinals should be adding Jadaveon Clowney right now, because all the other spare parts would look better.
Again, Gardeck is a very nice special teams player, but to expect him to carry the load with Kennard is just setting yourself up for disappointment.
Kennard has had stretches of better play earlier in his career and he still isn't an old player. He's replacement level.
It's proven to be a really bad strategy with a Vance Joseph D. Even our first round picks on D barely contribute!
Good argument on this point.
I couldn't believe that Jones played over 800 snaps last year. What makes you even more sick is guess who was #1 in snap count? Hicks, with over 1k.
I think Keim wrote a check that no GM should ever write....anointing a rookie starter from day one.
Collins and Simmons better be ready to produce, because there are a lot of snaps that will have to be eaten up.
One of the better moves the Cardinals made was to at least hedge their bets with the Vigil signing.
 

Krangodnzr

Captain of Team Murray
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
34,280
Reaction score
30,229
Location
Orange County, CA
1) Chandler had the most pressures and that is why I stated that because people were judging him by sacks alone
2) Did I day Markus was better at stopping the run? No. And could you explain to me how Markus's ability to the stop the run changes my factual statement on Chandler
3) I did not say I was happy he was gone, and I doubt the Cardinals are happy, but it was a question of money and where he was at in his career. BTW, the season when he was out the Cards actually did generate a very effective pass rush by committee
4) Chris, chill out
Agree. I still think the pass rush (and overall defense) will probably take a step back this year however.

I think the Cardinals are 8-9 or 9-8 ball club right now.
 

DVontel

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 28, 2015
Posts
12,360
Reaction score
21,041
they have had months to prepare -- and had McBride ranked high -- and Keim is doing the "how tall is he? what was his 40?" thing as the pick approached.
I found this odd as hell, too. How do you not know these things off the top of your head? Sounds like Keim barely did research on the guy? Shocking? Giving his draft history? Definitely not.
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
36,523
Reaction score
25,971
Location
Gilbert, AZ
I found this odd as hell, too. How do you not know these things off the top of your head? Sounds like Keim barely did research on the guy? Shocking? Giving his draft history? Definitely not.
Weird that they'd be performing for the TV show that's being filmed in front of them.
 
Top