Suns @ Bucks Sunday game thread 3-6-2022

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Mainstreet

Mainstreet

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Averages???

This is game where he's the biggest sun in the starting lineup and well for most of the team. CP3 and Booker get their fair of rebounds so they can run the break. They didn't play.

This one game with our #1 and #2 players out, Ayton has to step up and grab them, a game where he has to get more than his average.

Dont bring up HOF player's averages to support your narrative. Its really simple for this big re-match with you key teammates out, show up and prove that you want revenge from the finals and that you're ready to earn your supermax when crunchtime comes.

I think we are seeing the importance of Chris Paul and Devin Booker cleaning up loose rebounds. With no one there to grab them the Suns are suffering in this area.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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That first part is exactly what I am saying. He isn't close to those players so people shouldn't have that level of expectation out of him. He is likely going to be a 16-18/10-10.5 guy his entire career unless he becomes more of a primary option offensively. He could get to 20 PPG. He .8 below his career reb average which I said as well. I think that is partly because when he isn't being consistent, they are yanking him for McGee and sometimes Biyombo who are grabbing boards that Ayton previously would have had a chance to be in there to do. Monty has a shorter hook knowing those guys are behind Ayton. I had hoped when we drafted him he could become a 25/12 type player but 4 years later I don't see that happening. I am not sure he will ever be consistent enough to get there. He might just be one of those guys that can't turn it on at another level until the playoffs.
He’s playing 1.3 minutes less per game this season than last but he’s dropped almost a full rebound (0.8) per game. If there was a correlation he’d be averaging 23 rebounds per game. Let’s call it what it is, he hasn’t rebounded well this season based on his own averages. This is his worst rebound-per-minute average of his entire career. So let’s forget about comparing him to others and just admit that he isn’t living up to the standard he’s already set for himself.
 

AzStevenCal

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I think we are seeing the importance of Chris Paul and Devin Booker cleaning up loose rebounds. With no one there to grab them the Suns are suffering in this area.
I'm hoping it's just a case of DA having to re-train himself to go after the kind of rebounds that Paul and Booker usually accounted for. We also need to see a few other players help out too.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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That is still a possibility but I am going to hold to my original thought on that. I said by end of this year we will know what we have in Ayton. Not to say he can't slightly improve here or there but I didn't see after year 4 him getting significantly better in any one area.
I don’t know why you’d limit him after year 4. We’ve seen bridges grow offensively and I expect more growth from him in the future. Heck, we’ve seen book grow more this year with his defense and three point shot and he’s well past year four. I suspect Ayton will continue to grow.
 
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I'm hoping it's just a case of DA having to re-train himself to go after the kind of rebounds that Paul and Booker usually accounted for. We also need to see a few other players help out too.

It could well be but Ayton needs to be aggressive going after every rebound. Too often he is an observer.
 

overseascardfan

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PHX needs to find a rebounder either in FA or draft (might have to buy a second rounder if traded for Holiday). You would think with added size of McGee & Biyombo we would be good but obviously not. Enes Freedom is available, say what you want but dude can rebound and is a load in paint.
 

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The fact that your posting and arguing about this is actually proof that you’re not waiting until the end of the season.

And we are talking about right now. The 16 game stretch during which he’s averaging 8 rebounds per game. If you don’t want to address that, don’t.
It's called using what you have now out of Ayton and an available baseline. I can't use something he hasn't done yet. LOL. My expectations are not out of whack. The numbers being thrown around by others established that baseline not me. I was just correlating the types of players that come along with those numbers. I made it clear I wasn't saying he is even in their league.

I don’t know why you’d limit him after year 4. We’ve seen bridges grow offensively and I expect more growth from him in the future. Heck, we’ve seen book grow more this year with his defense and three point shot and he’s well past year four. I suspect Ayton will continue to grow.
It's nothing personal about him. There are very few players in NBA history that have become different players after year 4 in the NBA. It's an odds things more than anything. Usually by year 4 you have a pretty good indication of who that player will be. As I stated, it's very possible he will continue make some incremental improvements. He is young enough that he can still improve. I am just not expecting anything dramatic like him becoming the most dominate force down low in the NBA.
 
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AzStevenCal

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PHX needs to find a rebounder either in FA or draft (might have to buy a second rounder if traded for Holiday). You would think with added size of McGee & Biyombo we would be good but obviously not. Enes Freedom is available, say what you want but dude can rebound and is a load in paint.
Do you want to win the rebounding battle or the game? I'll take our trio as is, we just need to get our guards back.

Edit: I had to change that to "trio", who knew that "t h r e e s o m e" was unacceptable?
 

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It's nothing personal about him. There are very few players in NBA history that have become different players after year 4 in the NBA. It's an odds things more than anything. Usually by year 4 you have a pretty good indication of who that player will be. As I stated, it's very possible he will continue make some incremental improvements. He is young enough that he can still improve. I am just not expecting anything dramatic.
This. Normally guys who end up dynamic really make dynamic changes in their games their first three or four years, making big leaps every successive year.

Ayton obviously isn’t doing that. His game on offense has evolved bit by bit each year and his D was doing the same his first three years, at a bigger pace. But he’s plateau’d on D this year at best and I think he’s even taken a small step backward.

Doesnt mean he won’t still get better, but I don’t think he has the inner drive/hunger to ever make him the superstar he could be given his natural talent and athleticism.
 
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PHX needs to find a rebounder either in FA or draft (might have to buy a second rounder if traded for Holiday). You would think with added size of McGee & Biyombo we would be good but obviously not. Enes Freedom is available, say what you want but dude can rebound and is a load in paint.

I'm guessing you are talking about the off season because the trade deadline has passed. The Suns will have a first round pick to trade during or after the draft.

The Suns have all their draft picks after the 2022 draft.
 

Finito

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We can argue about Ayton rebounding better but where was everybody else?

Crowder had 5 which is about his average. The same with Craig with 4.

However, Bridges had 0 in extended minutes. This hurt the most.

Also McGee had 1 and Biyombo 3 in limited minutes, lower than what they should produce.

When Cam Johnson plays, he averages about 4.


THIS.

It’s such a lazy take to cry about Ayton’s rebounding in the game but Ayton (8) had as many as the other four starters combined (8)

But you have Chaplin saying if Ayton got a rebound or two more we win

WHERE THE HELL WAS EVERYBODY ELSE.

Bridges was flat out pathetic in this game and we got 10 pages going after a guy who had 30/8 and outplayed Giannis
 

Finito

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No you are wrong. DA is our best player given that our other guys are out. The scoring was great and was absolutely critical in us staying in it. But his rebounding is disastrous and was a contributor to the loss.

Yes, other guys should have rebounded also, but DA’s STRENGTH is rebounding and he’s been pathetic at it for some time now. He is getting outplayed by every opponent. How is that not concerning? If you think he’s this amazing and great superstar who is sacrificing his game for the betterment of the team, why hasn’t he shown that he’s up to the task? He’s not Devin Booker. 30 points for DA is fantastic but not normal. Getting 12 rebounds SHOULD be the normal for him and he isn’t doing it. The points are gravy and unexpected. The rebounds are expected.

30 points and 8 rebounds isn’t bad, what is bad is that he can do more and the eye test shows that he either can’t or doesn’t want to. Watch the games for chrissake! When he gets 30 points and only 8 rebounds and we LOSE, he’s in danger of producing empty stats.

Get just one or two offensive rebounds and we win this game. But he didn’t have the desire to do so.

“ Get just one or two offensive rebounds and we win this game. But he didn’t have the desire to do so.”

So you just said this loss is on Ayton cause he missed out on 2 rebounds
 

Finito

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You have completely missed the point, but that's ok. I myself never said it's "on" Ayton. It contributed certainly. His lackadasical play was throughout each of these past few games. How is that not a concern? And it's not about "specifically" 12 or 16 or 20 rebounds. It's about the effort to get rebounds. He should have had more effort last night, no question. And that would have increased his rebounding total. It just would have.

“ I myself never said it's "on" Ayton.”

No that’s exactly what you said in the post right above I just quoted you.

If Ayton gets two more rebounds we win. That you, you said that

Member...I member
 

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“ Get just one or two offensive rebounds and we win this game. But he didn’t have the desire to do so.”

So you just said this loss is on Ayton cause he missed out on 2 rebounds

If Bridges got 5 rebounds and scored 10 more points we would have won also. Feel better?

We’re talking about Ayton, and having just a little more aggression would have made a huge difference in The outcome of the game. Do you disagree?
 

Chaplin

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“ I myself never said it's "on" Ayton.”

No that’s exactly what you said in the post right above I just quoted you.

If Ayton gets two more rebounds we win. That you, you said that

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Yes I absolutely said that. But since you can’t really comprehend what you read, it makes sense that you equate that as it’s the ONLY reason we lost.
 

Finito

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Yes I absolutely said that. But since you can’t really comprehend what you read, it makes sense that you equate that as it’s the ONLY reason we lost.

Oh I understood it very much even quoted you but now your telling me what you said isn’t really what you meant. Lol

Well it’s not the only reason, but it’s the only reason you pointed and even went as far as to say if Ayton got two more rebounds we win
 

Finito

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If Bridges got 5 rebounds and scored 10 more points we would have won also. Feel better?

We’re talking about Ayton, and having just a little more aggression would have made a huge difference in The outcome of the game. Do you disagree?

Ayton 30/8
Giannis 19/13

Payne 23/8
Holiday 24/9

Bridges 14/0
Middleton 44/8

Now you tell me who the Suns needed more out of. Looks like someone did hold up his end

But here we are with 10 pages about how Ayton cost us the game
 

Chaplin

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Ayton 30/8
Giannis 19/13

Payne 23/8
Holiday 24/9

Bridges 14/0
Middleton 44/8

Now you tell me who the Suns needed more out of. Looks like someone did hold up his end

But here we are with 10 pages about how Ayton cost us the game
I'm not going to rehash the same argument simply because you either choose to not read the rest of the thread or simply don't understand it. See ya.
 

Finito

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I'm not going to rehash the same argument simply because you either choose to not read the rest of the thread or simply don't understand it. See ya.

Are you leaving the board again?

Bye
 

Finito

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No, I'm leaving this interaction with you. You have a beef with me, be a man and send a PM.


How is it beef I literally just quoted you contradicting yourself

That’s not beef.
 

Finito

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Weird.
xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

This is what I’ve been trying to say. The entire team has fallen off a cliff rebounding, but people only look at Ayton

What’s going on. What’s the explanation for this.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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It's called using what you have now out of Ayton and an available baseline. I can't use something he hasn't done yet. LOL. My expectations are not out of whack. The numbers being thrown around by others established that baseline not me. I was just correlating the types of players that come along with those numbers. I made it clear I wasn't saying he is even in their league.


It's nothing personal about him. There are very few players in NBA history that have become different players after year 4 in the NBA. It's an odds things more than anything. Usually by year 4 you have a pretty good indication of who that player will be. As I stated, it's very possible he will continue make some incremental improvements. He is young enough that he can still improve. I am just not expecting anything dramatic like him becoming the most dominate force down low in the NBA.
Ah yeah he ain’t becoming that. He’d need a brain transplant.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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THIS.

It’s such a lazy take to cry about Ayton’s rebounding in the game but Ayton (8) had as many as the other four starters combined (8)

But you have Chaplin saying if Ayton got a rebound or two more we win

WHERE THE HELL WAS EVERYBODY ELSE.

Bridges was flat out pathetic in this game and we got 10 pages going after a guy who had 30/8 and outplayed Giannis
No man, what’s lazy is arguing numbers when we are talking about what we actually saw. There were two instances where a rebound caromed right over a stationary Ayton to giannis where they scored second chance points. Ayton didn’t even try to box Giannis out.
 

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