Suns small ball lineups

Mainstreet

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I was thinking about the Suns small ball lineups without Dario Saric and Torrey Craig.

As the roster stands at the moment, who is going to be the small ball center?

Maybe the Suns try to always play with a center on the court but if they go without a true center, who plays that role? At the moment it looks like Cam Johnson is going to play a lot of backup power forward behind Jae Crowder. Might he also put in the role of switching to small ball center.

I have not factored Jalen Smith into the equation as yet.

Anyway I wanted to get some thoughts on the subject.
 

SirStefan32

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I think it depends on who the opposing Center is. If it's a Draymond Green-type, then it's Crowder. If it's someone bigger, then Frank Kaminsky.
I really view Kaminsky as the small ball Center and "big lineup" backup power forward. All that said, there is no reason for the Suns to go that small. Ayton can guard small 5s just fine. However, if the other team goes really small with Ayton on the bench, then you roll out Crowder and Cam J. at 4 and 5.
 
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Mainstreet

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I think it depends on who the opposing Center is. If it's a Draymond Green-type, then it's Crowder. If it's someone bigger, then Frank Kaminsky.
I really view Kaminsky as the small ball Center and "big lineup" backup power forward. All that said, there is no reason for the Suns to go that small. Ayton can guard small 5s just fine. However, if the other team goes really small with Ayton on the bench, then you roll out Crowder and Cam J. at 4 and 5.

I liked having Torrey Craig fill the small ball center roll because he could bang a bit inside.

IMO, Crowder does not have enough height and I really like Cam Johnson at forward.

I guess I view Frank Kaminsky as a traditional center although he can do some of the things that Saric did except I think Saric posed more of a physical presence.
 
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Mainstreet

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Although Jalen Smith's frame is thin I'm beginning to wonder if he might he be miscast as power forward.

He plays much better inside than he does outside standing in the corner waiting for a three pointer. Although he can hit the three, he looks more comfortable playing inside.

Smith is an excellent ball handler. I'd like to see him operate from the top of the circle and go from there. Of course the Suns appear intent on making him a power forward.
 

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Although Jalen Smith's frame is thin I'm beginning to wonder if he might he be miscast as power forward.

He plays much better inside than he does outside standing in the corner waiting for a three pointer. Although he can hit the three, he looks more comfortable playing inside.

Smith is an excellent ball handler. I'd like to see him operate from the top of the circle and go from there. Of course the Suns appear intent on making him a power forward.
He needs to be somewhere where he can learn from an NBA PF. Where he at least has a chance to play some. I'm high on that kid as a true power forward but tbo he's gonna need a bit of time to find his man body. And eventually if we do have to go small he would do fine at the 5.
All this is if we keep him of course. Hope we do
 

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Although Jalen Smith's frame is thin I'm beginning to wonder if he might he be miscast as power forward.

He plays much better inside than he does outside standing in the corner waiting for a three pointer. Although he can hit the three, he looks more comfortable playing inside.

Smith is an excellent ball handler. I'd like to see him operate from the top of the circle and go from there. Of course the Suns appear intent on making him a power forward.

You must have missed how many point blank shots he missed and how many balls he threw away in Summer League.
 

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I was thinking about the Suns small ball lineups without Dario Saric and Torrey Craig.

As the roster stands at the moment, who is going to be the small ball center?

Maybe the Suns try to always play with a center on the court but if they go without a true center, who plays that role? At the moment it looks like Cam Johnson is going to play a lot of backup power forward behind Jae Crowder. Might he also put in the role of switching to small ball center.

I have not factored Jalen Smith into the equation as yet.

Anyway I wanted to get some thoughts on the subject.

When was the last time a player at only 210 pounds played center in the NBA? Has it happened since the Bill Russell days?
 

Carolinacacti

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Mainstreet you need to take a break... Going from PF to small ball is a little much. Suns will play the same players every game, other teams have to match up with them. Seriously take a break
 

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We don’t know what Smith is yet due to lack of actual nba game time. He just happened to join a suns team that went to the finals.

I for one am still confused on his niche. Does he hit outside shots, yes but not consistently. Does he rebound and play inside, a little of that too.

But where can this guy shine? Summer league didn’t show much which leads me towards the guys isn’t ready to see minutes on our team.
 
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Mainstreet

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Mainstreet you need to take a break... Going from PF to small ball is a little much. Suns will play the same players every game, other teams have to match up with them. Seriously take a break

My last post on this thread (prior to this post) was August 11th. That's almost a month.

Maybe you should visit more often.
 

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We don’t know what Smith is yet due to lack of actual nba game time. He just happened to join a suns team that went to the finals.

I for one am still confused on his niche. Does he hit outside shots, yes but not consistently. Does he rebound and play inside, a little of that too.

But where can this guy shine? Summer league didn’t show much which leads me towards the guys isn’t ready to see minutes on our team.

I wouldn't say he shined in Summer League but he did lead the league in rebounds per game. That's quality production and something to build off of, IMO. We don't need him to do much offensively right now given who else he'll be on the floor with.

He needs to get on the floor for us to judge and I trust Monty to put him in a position to succeed so if he we see him early in the season it's because he's shown enough to Monty to earn those minutes, however many they may be. I hope we can get him on the floor for 10-15 minutes a game when matchup permit.

One thing I trust is that Monty won't up set him up to fail.
 

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I wouldn't say he shined in Summer League but he did lead the league in rebounds per game. That's quality production and something to build off of, IMO. We don't need him to do much offensively right now given who else he'll be on the floor with.

He needs to get on the floor for us to judge and I trust Monty to put him in a position to succeed so if he we see him early in the season it's because he's shown enough to Monty to earn those minutes, however many they may be. I hope we can get him on the floor for 10-15 minutes a game when matchup permit.

One thing I trust is that Monty won't up set him up to fail.

It's this kind of thinking that left posters on this board content with Isaiah Canaan and Shaq Harrison as the potential starting point guards.

Look more closely at Jalen Smith's performance in Summer League. His rebounding percentage was bad. Yes, he had a lot of rebounds, but that was largely because the team shot so poorly, and many rebounds were uncontested and off of his own point blank misses. Meanwhile, when other players were around to contest boards, ball after ball went right through Smith's fingers.

Jalen Smith's rebounds per game average in Summer League doesn't translate at all to success in real NBA games. And that doesn't even factor in his atrocious shooting, particularly from within the paint, and his poor defense.

If Jalen Smith gets real minutes this season, this team will lose each and every time he does.
 

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I hope to hell we don't need small ball in large doses at all this season. Especially, with the emergence of Ayton. Unless he regresses I hope we see very little small ball at all. If this is a legit concern? This team has bigger issues.
 

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I hope to hell we don't need small ball in large doses at all this season. Especially, with the emergence of Ayton. Unless he regresses I hope we see very little small ball at all. If this is a legit concern? This team has bigger issues.

Frankly, with Ayton and McGee being the only legitimate bigs, I think we are about to see nothing BUT small ball this year: 1 center and 4 guards/wings.
 

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STIX IS A PF.
Just not an NBA PF...yet! Muscles are good but weight is where its at in the post. I think he has the work ethic the skills AND the IQ. He will blossom within the next 2 or 3 years if he keeps working on size. But will he be a SUN?
Forget Summer League its a pissing contest for people with swollen prostates and it proves or disproves nothing.
Sometimes you need to be thrown in the fire to grow. I played Varsity in 7th grade I got bussed over from the Jr high, I needed to get kicked around a little bit before I got my bearings. Everyone was bigger stronger than me so I had to adapt.
I think Stix CAN do it but do we have the time?
 
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Mainstreet

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STIX IS A PF.
Just not an NBA PF...yet! Muscles are good but weight is where its at in the post. I think he has the work ethic the skills AND the IQ. He will blossom within the next 2 or 3 years if he keeps working on size. But will he be a SUN?
Forget Summer League its a pissing contest for people with swollen prostates and it proves or disproves nothing.
Sometimes you need to be thrown in the fire to grow. I played Varsity in 7th grade I got bussed over from the Jr high, I needed to get kicked around a little bit before I got my bearings. Everyone was bigger stronger than me so I had to adapt.
I think Stix CAN do it but do we have the time?

If given time, I think the Jalen Smith we saw play for Maryland is still there. He does have skills.

The Suns do need to find a contributor with the open roster spot though.

Both Saric and Smith may be welcome contributors in the 2022-23 season or minimally used in a trade later this season.
 

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STIX IS A PF.
Just not an NBA PF...yet! Muscles are good but weight is where its at in the post. I think he has the work ethic the skills AND the IQ. He will blossom within the next 2 or 3 years if he keeps working on size. But will he be a SUN?
Forget Summer League its a pissing contest for people with swollen prostates and it proves or disproves nothing.
Sometimes you need to be thrown in the fire to grow. I played Varsity in 7th grade I got bussed over from the Jr high, I needed to get kicked around a little bit before I got my bearings. Everyone was bigger stronger than me so I had to adapt.
I think Stix CAN do it but do we have the time?

If it were just a matter of experience, physical (or even mental) maturity or strength, sure. The problem, however, is that his disproportionate physique makes him incredibly awkward and uncoordinated on the court. This isn't something the Suns can afford to try to work through if they want to try to contend for a championship. Steady progression cannot be expected, and the lack of coordination presents a significant risk of injury to other Suns players, not unlike what happened with Randy Livingston and Tom Gugliotta. I don't want to see CP3, Booker or Ayton blow out a knee due to a predictably awkward fall or misstep by Stix.
 

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If given time, I think the Jalen Smith we saw play for Maryland is still there. He does have skills.

If the Suns can find a contributor with the open roster spot I'm willing to roll with Saric and Smith. Both may be welcome contributors in the 2022-23 season or minimally used in a trade later this season.

Saric won't be ready to roll for at least a year. If Summer League is any indication, Smith might never be ready to roll. And as Alex Len showed, it doesn't take much to put up numbers like Stix put up at Maryland...just some height and a modicum of ability. That's a massive difference from being an actual NBA player.
 

Covert Rain

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If given time, I think the Jalen Smith we saw play for Maryland is still there. He does have skills.

The Suns do need to find a contributor with the open roster spot though.

Both Saric and Smith may be welcome contributors in the 2022-23 season or minimally used in a trade later this season.
He also may never get there. The Suns have to plan for that too which I think you do but doing exactly what you said here. Find another contributor.
 

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He also may never get there. The Suns have to plan for that too which I think you do but doing exactly what you said here. Find another contributor.
Yeah he may never get there, he might be a future superstar and anything in between. We have our guesses but by now I would expect the coaching staff and front office to have a pretty good feel for this kid and whether or not he is likely to succeed.
 
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