PFF - Ranking every teams drafting over the last 4 years

[BritCard]

All I can say is Oof

Notice who the top 2 teams are and where the rest of our division is.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-historical-draft-success-for-all-32-nfl-teams

No matter of they weight it or adjust the algo the Cards are bottom of every table.

 

[Solar7]

Not a surprise. Imagine where we'd be on that chart without getting Murray. Someone needs to slip this article under Mikey B's door at HQ.

 

[HGC]

This shouldn’t surprise anyone here. Steve Keim is a bottom 5 GM

 

[BritCard]

Not a surprise. Imagine where we'd be on that chart without getting Murray. Someone needs to slip this article under Mikey B's door at HQ.

For what it's worth I don't think it's ONLY scouting. I mean sure, it sucks ass, as does Keim, but there are also major, major issues with coaching and talent development combined with a mentality in the Org that is wary to put young players in the mix. And this has always been the case so I can only assume it's coming from closer to the top.

We barely played Budda until about Game 10 and even then he only got time because Badger was injured. Simmons same. Hump missed a whole year. Josh Jones just missed a year. Our whole 2019 class except Murray has been like that. Yes Murphy got to play but only because we had major CB injuries.

Other than at QB the only player I can think of recently that was drafted and started from game 1 is Christian Kirk. And that was largely because that WR room was ass.

You take a guy like Simmons round 1 and sit him that much you are draining his confidence. You have to say "We got you, make your mistakes, learn and we will reap the benefits on the back end".

The whole system is broken top to bottom. Scouting, coaching and ethos.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

The whole system is broken top to bottom. Scouting, coaching and ethos.

This

 

[Jasper]

Oh no we suck!

I don't blame Keim 100%, scouting, evaluation, coaching etc.
Major flaw is I don't think we draft according to physical traits instead of a specific fit. Its hard to when you change coaching staff and systems every few years.
Either we are drafting wrong or the coaches are refusing to play draftees in their natural positions. Obviously not on the same page.

 

[slanidrac16]

This is THE biggest problem we have. If Kiem falls on his face this year he will need to be replaced.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

I have felt it and said it for some time now, but I have always thought that it was poor coaching being the main issue. It seems to me like they are a bunch of guys over their heads who are just faking it and going through the motions. I truly wonder if they are anywhere near the head of the pack when it comes to modern techniques and such. I am speaking of the assistants, the ones working closest with the players, all the way down the line.

Have they wasted time, not to mention players careers, trying to coach them into positions they were not made for? Maybe sometimes were out of need, but still it shows in the long run how futile an approach like that is.

I must, to be fair, qualify those statements with the fact that I have no experience or personal evidence to that fact. It just seems evident based on results. But whatever the reasons, you can't keep doing the same thing that hasn't worked and expect things to improve. We need an overhaul, but to get that the guy at the top has to admit to some complacency.

 

[football karma]

I have felt it and said it for some time now, but I have always thought that it was poor coaching being the main issue.

i wont speak for Wilks or Kliff thus far

but of the examples given of rookies sitting during their rookie year, two of them were by the Arians coaching staff --- who seems to be a pretty good head coach.

im not going to claim Keim is good, but the article posted also says that the results could be explained by the randomness of the draft as well --

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

The whole system is broken top to bottom. Scouting, coaching and ethos.

Speaking of scouting: How many scouts do we have and who are they?
Anyone know what they get paid?

Do we even have a scout covering the African nations, like Republic of the Congo, Equatorial Guinea and Gabon? What about Mozambique, Tanzania, or Uganda, the most physically fit nation in the whole world. I can only imagine the size and strength of some of the natives over there. We all know too that Africans tend to be the fastest runners, ie Usain Bolt. (Jamaican you say ... yes, and Jamaicans are mostly descended from West Africa). Do we have anyone over there anywhere, searching the towns, forests, and jungles for the next Ezekiel Ansah or whoever?

 

[BritCard]

FA isn't much better. Bottom right is bad.

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[GuernseyCard]

For what it's worth I don't think it's ONLY scouting. I mean sure, it sucks ass, as does Keim, but there are also major, major issues with coaching and talent development combined with a mentality in the Org that is wary to put young players in the mix. And this has always been the case so I can only assume it's coming from closer to the top.

We barely played Budda until about Game 10 and even then he only got time because Badger was injured. Simmons same. Hump missed a whole year. Josh Jones just missed a year. Our whole 2019 class except Murray has been like that. Yes Murphy got to play but only because we had major CB injuries.

Other than at QB the only player I can think of recently that was drafted and started from game 1 is Christian Kirk. And that was largely because that WR room was ass.

You take a guy like Simmons round 1 and sit him that much you are draining his confidence. You have to say "We got you, make your mistakes, learn and we will reap the benefits on the back end".

The whole system is broken top to bottom. Scouting, coaching and ethos.

They put Simmons out there early and he was clearly confused and made mistakes. Not that surprising given the overall circumstances leading into the season but luckily we had Campbell.

As the season went on he adjusted and by the end we could see less thinking, more instinct and promise for the future.

In professional team sport the first rule is "do no harm".

This is how coaches evaluate whether you play and how much. They don't simply throw a guy out there and say, in effect, "don't worry, we got you."

They're in the business of winning games and set their lineup as such.

Again, the Simmons' case is a bit of an anomaly given that they didn't have a full camp to set his role and work out the kinks.

 

[Chopper0080]

Some of it is Keim.

Some of it is Bidwill.

Some of it is coaching/system turnover.

The results have been really bad.

 

[Chopper0080]

They put Simmons out there early and he was clearly confused and made mistakes. Not that surprising given the overall circumstances leading into the season but luckily we had Campbell.

As the season went on he adjusted and by the end we could see less thinking, more instinct and promise for the future.

In professional team sport the first rule is "do no harm".

This is how coaches evaluate whether you play and how much. They don't simply throw a guy out there and say, in effect, "don't worry, we got you."

They're in the business of winning games and set their lineup as such.

Again, the Simmons' case is a bit of an anomaly given that they didn't have a full camp to set his role and work out the kinks.

The full camp and not ready are such tired excuses.

 

[JohnnyCakes]

IF you believe that metric is valid and IF you believe that constant influx and integration of good young talent is necessary then there is no way you look at that and say that Steve Keim should have a job General Managing the Arizona Cardinals.

I think we can deduce one important factor from this and our current reality---- that Mike B is perhaps "too loyal " to Steve Keim.

 

[GuernseyCard]

The full camp and not ready are such tired excuses.

"reasons"

 

[Mainstreet]

Beyond the owner, which you can't change, it falls at the feet of the GM.

Wishing and hoping is about all the fans have that Keim will get the draft right.

 

[BritCard]

They put Simmons out there early and he was clearly confused and made mistakes. Not that surprising given the overall circumstances leading into the season but luckily we had Campbell.

As the season went on he adjusted and by the end we could see less thinking, more instinct and promise for the future.

In professional team sport the first rule is "do no harm".

This is how coaches evaluate whether you play and how much. They don't simply throw a guy out there and say, in effect, "don't worry, we got you."

They're in the business of winning games and set their lineup as such.

Again, the Simmons' case is a bit of an anomaly given that they didn't have a full camp to set his role and work out the kinks.

I disagree. A number of teams played rookies from game 1 full time that didn't have good starts (or good season).

Just in the LB draft alone there was Patrick Queen and Kenneth Murray. Both started all 16 games. Both had starts as bad as Simmons, in fact Queen was bad all year according to PFF despite racking up stats due to alot of playing time. Queen finished the year with a 29 grade, Murray 54. This is what PFF said about Queen's season.

""Queen is one of the most active linebackers in the league and gets in on a lot of plays, but many of them are not good, and those tend to get hidden from traditional data points," Monson explained. "Queen’s 22 missed tackles led the league, and he was beaten for a 117.5 passer rating when targeted. He also struggled often against the run whenever he had to defeat a block and couldn’t just flow to the football."

A lot of that you could apply to early Simmons and Murray but those teams put their trust in their players. They took their lumps to reap the rewards later.

Going into '21 Queen has 858 snaps at ILB and a tonne of tape to help him improve. Kenneth Murray has 959.

Isaiah Simmons has 376. And half of those, possible more, were not at ILB. I'd take Murray's 54 grade playing 959 snaps at ILB than Simmons 59 bit part role any day.

The problem with the Cardinals is that 2013-2015 has gone to their heads. They are the football equivalent of a pop group who had a few top 40 hits 8 years ago and think they are the Rolling Stones. They are always "just one good song" away from making it back to the "big time" while playing back room bar gigs to 50 drunks.

If teams considered much better than us going into the season like the Chargers and Ravens can take their lumps with rookie ILB's why can't we?

 

[BritCard]

The full camp and not ready are such tired excuses.

Didn't stop Queen and Murray.

 

[BritCard]

IF you believe that metric is valid and IF you believe that constant influx and integration of good young talent is necessary then there is no way you look at that and say that Steve Keim should have a job General Managing the Arizona Cardinals.

I think we can deduce one important factor from this and our current reality---- that Mike B is perhaps "too loyal " to Steve Keim.

It's not loyalty. It's comfortable.

Steve Keim has no problem with Bidwill playing "co GM" where many other GM's would. Certainly anyone that's any good.

Keim let's Mike play in the sandpit with all the fun toys and he doesn't want that to go away.

 

[GuernseyCard]

I disagree. A number of teams played rookies from game 1 full time that didn't have good starts (or good season).

Just in the LB draft alone there was Patrick Queen and Kenneth Murray. Both started all 16 games. Both had starts as bad as Simmons, in fact Queen was bad all year according to PFF despite racking up stats due to alot of playing time. Queen finished the year with a 29 grade, Murray 54. This is what PFF said about Queen's season.

""Queen is one of the most active linebackers in the league and gets in on a lot of plays, but many of them are not good, and those tend to get hidden from traditional data points," Monson explained. "Queen’s 22 missed tackles led the league, and he was beaten for a 117.5 passer rating when targeted. He also struggled often against the run whenever he had to defeat a block and couldn’t just flow to the football."

A lot of that you could apply to early Simmons and Murray but those teams put their trust in their players. They took their lumps to reap the rewards later.

Going into '21 Queen has 858 snaps at ILB and a tonne of tape to help him improve. Kenneth Murray has 959.

Isaiah Simmons has 376. And half of those, possible more, were not at ILB. I'd take Murray's 54 grade playing 959 snaps at ILB than Simmons 59 bit part role any day.

The problem with the Cardinals is that 2013-2015 has gone to their heads. They are the football equivalent of a pop group who had a few top 40 hits 8 years ago and think they are the Rolling Stones. They are always "just one good song" away from making it back to the "big time" while playing back room bar gigs to 50 drunks.

If teams considered much better than us going into the season like the Chargers and Ravens can take their lumps with rookie ILB's why can't we?

Love the analogy!

 

[JohnnyCakes]

It's not loyalty. It's comfortable.

Steve Keim has no problem with Bidwill playing "co GM" where many other GM's would. Certainly anyone that's any good.

Keim let's Mike play in the sandpit with all the fun toys and he doesn't want that to go away.

I can believe this reality to a point. But mike B has other shareholders to report to. He has to ensure consistency in the product he oversees. If he keeps employing the worst GM in the game because he likes the smell of his farts more than anyone elses then he is in trouble.

 

[DVontel]

This Simmons talk could’ve been avoided if we just drafted Wirfs.

 

[GuernseyCard]

I can believe this reality to a point. But mike B has other shareholders to report to. He has to ensure consistency in the product he oversees. If he keeps employing the worst GM in the game because he likes the smell of his farts more than anyone elses then he is in trouble.

It's a family business!

 

[BritCard]

It's a family business!

And football always pays. And it pays almost as much when you lose as it does when you win. There's certainly no financial incentive for share holders to get pissed.