This game will be a treatise of KK's offensive "genius".

SoonerLou

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I assume a lot of fired OC's would use the argument that everything was about execution.

The GM's that fired them argued back you should have used creative ways to help your players execute and not go complete wide eyed look because a guy missed a few throws.

Kliff smartly used Kyler's legs to help us take the lead against the Lions...and then went away from it.

Panthers game...well they threw the same same defense that held us to season low yards/attempt as the year before. So I question how well was the team prepped during the week.

Is it all on the play caller? NO.

But the blameless reaction..lol. This isnt college. Kliff's not going to make it long if he cant consistently adjust when its clear certain things arent working.

Thats where its important to be very versatile on offense and not limited. Sometimes your players arent going to execute things very well. You have to work around it.

I've watched enough Rams/49ers games to see McVay and Shannahan do just that.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

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I assume a lot of fired OC's would use the argument that everything was about execution.

The GM's that fired them argued back you should have used creative ways to help your players execute and not go complete wide eyed look because a guy missed a few throws.

Kliff smartly used Kyler's legs to help us take the lead against the Lions...and then went away from it.

Panthers game...well they threw the same same defense that held us to season low yards/attempt as the year before. So I question how well was the team prepped during the week.

Is it all on the play caller? NO.

But the blameless reaction..lol. This isnt college. Kliff's not going to make it long if he cant consistently adjust when its clear certain things arent working.

Thats where its important to be very versatile on offense and not limited. Sometimes your players arent going to execute things very well. You have to work around it.

I've watched enough Rams/49ers games to see McVay and Shannahan do just that.
Wouldn't the 2nd half of the Jets game be a good example of making adjustments?

As a matter of fact I feel like we have generally been a better 2nd half team this year than first half.

We need to do a better job of getting out to a good start and if we do than it would appear that we would have a good chance against just about anyone.

Of course that can be put on him for not coming up with a better game plan to start the game. He seems to do better when he starts play calling on the fly as opposed to the scripted plays early in the game.
 

TRW

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KM has to execute. He HAS to hit the wide open guys, period. He's leaving a TON of plays out there. It's all part of his maturing, I know that, but he HAS to go off of his first read and see the field better. If he does that, then I think this offense will be unstoppable.

It's on Murray to become great. KK can't throw the ball to the wide open guys, he depends on KM to do so. I think it will come and I hope it's SOON.
 

SoonerLou

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Wouldn't the 2nd half of the Jets game be a good example of making adjustments?

As a matter of fact I feel like we have generally been a better 2nd half team this year than first half.

We need to do a better job of getting out to a good start and if we do than it would appear that we would have a good chance against just about anyone.

Of course that can be put on him for not coming up with a better game plan to start the game. He seems to do better when he starts play calling on the fly as opposed to the scripted plays early in the game.
I'm not saying he didnt. I'm not here to dump on Kliff. I'm just saying we go as he adjusts.

Kyler's play making skills usually makes up for when he misses a throw or screws up a play, etc....or bails us out of a crappy play. Yes he needs to execute better.

We adjusted in the Lions game....and then went away from it.

Panthers game I think we really needed to move the pocket and didnt.

Jets game...I had no issues with the gameplan at all when watching All 22. Solid plan early and like how we got aggressive later.
 

Chris_Sanders

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This idea that Kyler is the reason our offense isn't elite is based deeply in bias.

Murray is #15 in passing yardage, #12 in completion percentage, #16 in TDs, and #16 in the NFL in rushing yards being an average NFL passer and an elite run threat is where he would be

He isn't the problem. I can correctly call what plays the Cardinals will run on first down with a disturbing amount of accuracy from my house. Try it Monday. You can see the WR screens from a mile away

The Cardinals are in the lead league for penalties

Right now we are a predictable team that shoots itself in the foot on almost any drive. Our success has been not when the coach draws up an amazing play but when Murray runs for 30 yards, Hopkins makes an amazing catch, or our special teams bails us out

The only time I see Kliff innovate is on 4th down.

He coaches timid until the situation makes him excel. His timid coaching is why Simmons isn't playing.

As someone who really loved the hire, he is a lot of show and not a lot of substance.
 

football karma

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This idea that Kyler is the reason our offense isn't elite is based deeply in bias.

Murray is #15 in passing yardage, #12 in completion percentage, #16 in TDs, and #16 in the NFL in rushing yards

what if the diff between being top 5 and current is K1 not throwing to open players 5-7 times a game?

im not saying KK is perfect -- he isnt

and i think K1 is going to be really good, but he is still developing. i dont expect him to hit all of those 5-7 -- but 3 or 4. and that should be worth one extra TD drive.
 

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He's completing 70% of his passes as the second youngest QB in the NFL.

This focusing on a few bad throws that every QB has is just unreasonable
 

Jetstream Green

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A majority of Cowboy fans and a majority of Cardinal fans are skeptical they can win this game. Dallas is a tad better on offense at the least and the Cardinals no matter how ridiculous it might sound are better on defense
 

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what if the diff between being top 5 and current is K1 not throwing to open players 5-7 times a game?

im not saying KK is perfect -- he isnt

and i think K1 is going to be really good, but he is still developing. i dont expect him to hit all of those 5-7 -- but 3 or 4. and that should be worth one extra TD drive.

Even Tom Brady Misses 2-3 reads a game.

This expectation is ridiculous
 

HairZach

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This idea that Kyler is the reason our offense isn't elite is based deeply in bias.

Murray is #15 in passing yardage, #12 in completion percentage, #16 in TDs, and #16 in the NFL in rushing yards being an average NFL passer and an elite run threat is where he would be

He isn't the problem. I can correctly call what plays the Cardinals will run on first down with a disturbing amount of accuracy from my house. Try it Monday. You can see the WR screens from a mile away

The Cardinals are in the lead league for penalties

Right now we are a predictable team that shoots itself in the foot on almost any drive. Our success has been not when the coach draws up an amazing play but when Murray runs for 30 yards, Hopkins makes an amazing catch, or our special teams bails us out

The only time I see Kliff innovate is on 4th down.

He coaches timid until the situation makes him excel. His timid coaching is why Simmons isn't playing.

As someone who really loved the hire, he is a lot of show and not a lot of substance.
Most of Murrays 20+ yard runs are designed plays though. Our drives die because of penalties, Murray not planting his feet and missing a tough throw, or good defensive play. The penalties need to go down and Murray will get better. The offense has WRs open all day, its fine.

You're upset about our offensive performance, saying its the playcallers fault because Murray is performing as an NFL average passer? Well we're currently a top 10 NFL offense, performing above average. I know we're frustrating to watch because we're still leaving so many opportunities on the table, but the solution isn't ditching the coach who brought our offense from last place to top 10 in less than 2 years.

Also I think we only ran 2 WR screens vs. the Jets? We're making progress.
 
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iLLmatiC

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I am pretty sure Russ would have hit a wide open Larry Fitzgerald and thrown the ball with enough arc that Andy Isabella could have run under it instead of having to stretch for the catch. In both the Lions and Pantehrs game there were too many missed plays for me to throw it on the play caller. I feel like this debate hinges on whether you feel NFL QBs are treated like High School QBs or not. Kyler has multiple options on every pass play and the ability to audible as well. He controls whether or not the ball is pushed down the field or just dumped off short.

He will continue to be coddled by this board.
 

iLLmatiC

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Cards have a mediocre defense after facing five average to awful offenses... and now just lost Chandler Jones, with Devon Kennard, Kylie Fitts, Dennis Gardeck, and Rashard Lawrence all nursing injuries and in doubt to play as well... facing the #1 offense in the league! Kinda scary.

...dbs

They were the #1 offense until Dak snapped his ankle in two.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

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He will continue to be coddled by this board.
Nobody is arguing that he doesn't have areas to improve on. We are just pointing out that despite the amount of mistakes he has made he is still a solid QB right now and will likely only get better moving forward.
 

iLLmatiC

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Nobody is arguing that he doesn't have areas to improve on. We are just pointing out that despite the amount of mistakes he has made he is still a solid QB right now and will likely only get better moving forward.

Let's hope so. The inaccuracy, the inability to progress through his reads, and his aversion to running has been a tad concerning.
 

PACardsFan

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Let me put it another way. Murray is on pace for over 5300 combined yards and 42 combined TDs as the second youngest QB in the league.

He isn't the problem

And yet we have some on this board that routinely criticize him. I've been a fan since 1964. He's far & away the best young QBOF that this franchise has EVER had. Significantly better than a young Jim Hart, a young Neil Lomax, or a young Jake Plummer. And no one else even remotely qualifies to be mentioned.
 

Jetstream Green

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And yet we have some on this board that routinely criticize him. I've been a fan since 1964. He's far & away the best young QBOF that this franchise has EVER had. Significantly better than a young Jim Hart, a young Neil Lomax, or a young Jake Plummer. And no one else even remotely qualifies to be mentioned.
This
 

BritCard

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Football outsiders has our defense ranked 20th by DVOA. PFF ranks us 16th. I'd suggest that's closer to reality than the stats.
 

Garthshort

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Chris Sanders lost me when he said that KK's timid coaching is the reason why IS isn't playing. Or playing more. But I do agree with him about KM.
 

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This will be Simmons coming out party because VJ has run out of excuses to not put him in there, which will lead to VJs firing in that he couldn’t even recognise what he has in Simmons... or at least this is my wish/hope/dream
 

football karma

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seems like the thread has gotten a little "either/or"

so, to respond to the original thread supposition:

i dont think Mondays offensive performance is 100% on KKs coaching.

It has been demonstrated that K1, for all his goodness, is leaving yards on the field that upper tier QBs deliver. I believe that is a function of his inexperience and will go away over time (this monday!) BTW: i think K1 offsets some of those missed reads with his running.

i dont think his completion % is proof in and of itself: a 4 yard check down on 3rd and 10 isnt the same as a 12 yard completion on 3rd and 10.

He is currently ranked 14th in QBR, just below Jared Goff, ahead of QBs like Matt Ryan and Big Ben. For a 2nd year QB, thats awesome.

However, his YPA is 20th -- so he is throwing all sorts of short stuff. How much of that is play call vs his read/choice is up for debate.

We don't know, for example, how many WR screens are K1 options at the line to call. I'm willing to bet that he has the freedom to change a run into a WR screen at the line ( and i would want him to have that option).
 

WisconsinCard

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Has anyone ever heard KM at the line of scrimmage yelling...kill..kill..kill? Honest question, because I have not. There should always be an option of two plays depending on the defensive lineup. This would have some determination on if he is reading the defense presnap.
 

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