Let’s Talk About Kirk

[Harry]

I have a hunch the Cards are not enamored of Kirk. I’ve been watching as many on the board, myself included, have mentioned last year’s receivers could be expected to take a big step forward this season. I suspect the Cards thought Kirk would do the same last year. It’s fair to say he had some injury issues. It’s also fair to say he started nearly twice as many games yet his yards increased only 20%. His average yards per catch were down significantly. At times his hands looked unsure and he had trouble creating space from his defenders. He was not the explosive receiver they expected. They hoped for a YAC star based on his college return skills but he was fairly pedestrian.

Now the Cards face a draft that contains a great receiver pool headed by Murray’s favorite target. In fact the pool is so deep the Cards could move down a little and draft Lamb or even Jeudy. A second round pick could turn into a RT who could still be productive. It’s no sure thing that they bump Kirk, but I bet it’s being considered.

 

[TheCardFan]

They can't be enamored with his production...none of us are.

However, we only save 400k by moving him and he is young/still has upside. Plus - you won't get much for him/certainly not worth it at this point IMO.

If Kirk is your 2nd best WR...you have a problem. If he is your 4th best...that is pretty good.

 

[Solar7]

I think Kirk is a good player with injury struggles. But he's not a problem I'm overwhelmingly concerned with fixing. He's shown more flashes than any of the young WRs, and I'm not bringing in another rookie (especially not a 1st rounder) in the hopes that he's going to be better. There's a logjam of young players in that room, and someone should emerge.

If none of Kirk, Isabella, Butler, or Johnson can make any impact with Hopkins and Fitz drawing coverage, someone in the front office needs to be fired.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I love Kirk as a 3. I hate him as a 2.

I agree but would flip it. The OLine you get in round 2 simply won't be the player that the WRs are in round 2. The talent pool is vastly different

 

[Solar7]

I love Kirk as a 3. I hate him as a 2.

I agree but would flip it. The OLine you get in round 2 simply won't be the player that the WRs are in round 2. The talent pool is vastly different

I think I agree with this. One of the guys available to us at #8 at OL are going to be potentially elite players, and should start day 1. Some of the best current NFL WRs weren't picked in the first, especially the high first.

 

[Lagerfilled]

Not to mention, what if Fitz retires after 2020. Then you have Nuk and a who, no offense to Kirk and the 2nd year kids.

Not so sure that the Cards shouldn’t double down and pick Lamb, Jeudy, or Ruggs at 8 OR trade no lower than 12. Then SF doesn’t end up with the one we like more.

I think Ruggs has better hands than Jeudy, is better outside, and can take the top off better than Lamb. I believe this is a very real possibility and the RT talk is smoke. They can easily re-sign Marcus Gilbert on the cheap to start or backup Murray worst case.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

I have a hunch the Cards are not enamored of Kirk. I’ve been watching as many on the board, myself included, have mentioned last year’s receivers could be expected to take a big step forward this season. I suspect the Cards thought Kirk would do the same last year. It’s fair to say he had some injury issues. It’s also fair to say he started nearly twice as many games yet his yards increased only 20%. His average yards per catch were down significantly. At times his hands looked unsure and he had trouble creating space from his defenders. He was not the explosive receiver they expected. They hoped for a YAC star based on his college return skills but he was fairly pedestrian.

Now the Cards face a draft that contains a great receiver pool headed by Murray’s favorite target. In fact the pool is so deep the Cards could move down a little and draft Lamb or even Jeudy. A second round pick could turn into a RT who could still be productive. It’s no sure thing that they bump Kirk, but I bet it’s being considered.

I thought after the TB game he was going to take off? Guess the TB defense was just that bad against the pass?

 

[Goldfield]

With the off-season we had I’m pretty much happy with which ever way they go.

 

[Solar7]

Not to mention, what if Fitz retires after 2020. Then you have Nuk and a who, no offense to Kirk and the 2nd year kids.

Not so sure that the Cards shouldn’t double down and pick Lamb, Jeudy, or Ruggs at 8 OR trade no lower than 12. Then SF doesn’t end up with the one we like more.

I think Ruggs has better hands than Jeudy, is better outside, and can take the top off better than Lamb. I believe this is a very real possibility and the RT talk is smoke. They can easily re-sign Marcus Gilbert on the cheap to start or backup Murray worst case.

Panicking about who your QB is going to throw to a year from now - when we have young players who can develop - is ridiculous when you can barely trust the guys blocking for him. Talk about worrying about problems you don't know you'll have.

Going cheap or risky on your young QB's OL is baffling.

 

[Finito]

I really don’t understand all the Kirk hate. He’s a solid NFL WR. Not everybody on your team is going to be a star.

I swear since we traded for Hopkins it’s like there’s a Kirk trade proposal in every thread. He’s not going anywhere people. let It go

 

[Solar7]

I really don’t understand all the Kirk hate. He’s a solid NFL WR. Not everybody on your team is going to be a star.

I swear since we traded for Hopkins it’s like there’s a Kirk trade proposal in every thread. He’s not going anywhere people. let It go

It's not even like he's played enough to be locked in as whatever he really is yet. He's got a similar profile to someone like Chris Godwin, someone who didn't break out until his third year, and is now considered a bonafide star. All through injury and spots of poor QB play.

 

[iLLmatiC]

Let's see how he looks with Hopkins taking away some of the attention.

 

[Lagerfilled]

Panicking about who your QB is going to throw to a year from now - when we have young players who can develop - is ridiculous when you can barely trust the guys blocking for him. Talk about worrying about problems you don't know you'll have.

Going cheap or risky on your young QB's OL is baffling.

Nothing baffling about it bro! I’d love to have the SF or Baltimore olines too, but that’s not our scheme. We have a QB that can flat out spin it and WOs that can catch & get YAC regardless of protection. Not to mention Drake is a stud in this offense. The RoY already proved it’s potential with meh QB play and shoddy protection for half a season.

The reality is... Most organizations go from good to great by doubling down on strengths rather than trying to cover up weaknesses. We’ve already tried that and it doesn’t work!

 

[Solar7]

Nothing baffling about it bro! I’d love to have the SF or Baltimore olines too, but that’s not our scheme. We have a QB that can flat out spin it and WOs that can catch & get YAC regardless of protection. Not to mention Drake is a stud in this offense. The RoY already proved it’s potential with meh QB play and shoddy protection for half a season.

The reality is... Most organizations go from good to great by doubling down on strengths rather than trying to cover up weaknesses. We’ve already tried that and it doesn’t work!

I'd love to hear which teams are doubling down on weak offensive and defensive lines and succeeding. Your strategy sounds a lot like "force Kyler to run for his life" as a protection strategy, and the instant Kyler goes down, four WRs aren't going to matter, because Hundley isn't gonna succeed.

...Also, Drake's not a stud. But we can let that one lie from here. There's other threads to discuss that.

Feel free to also cite examples of where we've tried to cover up weaknesses and it hasn't worked, without using Levi Brown as an example.

 

[CardsFan88]

Kirk was our defacto #1 last year and while he is capable of it, it shouldn't be his role. He has to overachieve because of his physical limitations of being a tad small, slow, and less explosive as what that guy should be.

He can now with Hopkins go back to being the #2 or #3 guy and excel. Kirk is as happy with the Hopkins trade as anyone on this board.

I expect big things from him this year.

 

[Lagerfilled]

I'd love to hear which teams are doubling down on weak offensive and defensive lines and succeeding. Your strategy sounds a lot like "force Kyler to run for his life" as a protection strategy, and the instant Kyler goes down, four WRs aren't going to matter, because Hundley isn't gonna succeed.

...Also, Drake's not a stud. But we can let that one lie from here. There's other threads to discuss that.

Feel free to also cite examples of where we've tried to cover up weaknesses and it hasn't worked, without using Levi Brown as an example.

Hyperbole much??? We all get it... You want OL in the draft. Same tired song and dance.

Dansby part tre and Reddick are good near term examples and I’ve got countless others. Want me to keep going???

 

[SoonerLou]

Let's see how he looks with Hopkins taking away some of the attention.

TBF Houston's offense was average with Hopkins when they didnt have Will Fuller's speed on the field. It would help if Kirk was a little more dynamic. Although I'm hoping it was just the ankle injury that slowed down his progress.

 

[cardpa]

Kirk= Ted Ginn, he will wow you some days and then nothing on another day.

 

[iLLmatiC]

TBF Houston's offense was average with Hopkins when they didnt have Will Fuller's speed on the field. It would help if Kirk was a little more dynamic. Although I'm hoping it was just the ankle injury that slowed down his progress.

Well hopefully we have our burner in Isabella this year. Let's see how Houston's offense looks with Fuller and Cobb lol.

 

[slanidrac16]

I think Kirk could really blossom this year as the #3 receiver.

I wouldn’t be devestated if we took Lamb like some would be. I would prefer to trade down and still be able to take him and an extra pick.

The other thought is Hopkins is great but he was super when Fuller was healthy. Can Kirk be Fuller?

So much comes down to our 3 rookies from last year and what this organization thinks of them. I would hope if they DON’T think highly of them then they make the right move. You shouldn’t simply avoid taking a wr because we drafted 3 last year IF you think we missed on those picks last year.

Drafting Lamb or Juedy or Ruggs would be looking to the future. It might not make you happy today but it probably will down the road.

The other scenario is trade down. Get an OT, which I think will be Thomas, and in the second round get a guy like Mims. A guy like Duverney really excites me. So many different paths to take. The only sure thing is half of us will be happy and the other half won’t.

 

[SoonerLou]

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[SoonerLou]

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[Solar7]

Hyperbole much??? We all get it... You want OL in the draft. Same tired song and dance.

Dansby part tre and Reddick are good near term examples and I’ve got countless others. Want me to keep going???

I actually don't specifically want OL - I like Simmons, Brown, and can even understand why we'd choose Okudah. What I think is the most ridiculous concept I've read on this board, is spending the #8 overall pick on your #4 wide receiver. We just acquired one of the best WRs in the league. Spread the wealth.

Dansby was a cheap roster addition. Reddick was a panic move because the guys we wanted were gone, and they thought he was BPA. This isn't the same argument. Pick a moment where we were stacked at a position and selected someone else just to fill a need. It's like picking a safety when we had Tyrann, Johnson, and Jefferson back there.

 

[SoonerLou]

Kirk is more in the Golden Tate/Randall Cobb mold. However, those guys are/were far more physical runners. That wouldnt be as big of a deal if he was faster/more explosive.

I think he's going to be solid. Its just guys like Michael Gallup/D.J Chark are more of what we need on this team. If we had a bunch of speedsters already then Kirk would be more than ideal.

Like I said earlier. Just hoping it was the ankle last year.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I do not get the Kirk hype from his performance or availability as a pro. If he could be traded for say another 3 or 4 round pick... I would then go Jeudy or Lamb at eight