Devin Booker's development has been interrupted

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Exactly why I don’t believe claims that Booker is already better shooter or passer than Kobe based on numbers. Yes his efficiency numbers are higher than Kobe but like you said Westbrook averaged a trip-dub, Harden is averaging 40, Towns has better numbers than prime Dirk etc etc etc... Stats today need to be taken with a boulder of salt.

I can agree with that with the facilitating, but Booker is definitely a better shooter, especially from three.

 

[Cheesebeef]

All of that was a pretty big waste of time.

arguing with anyone who think Devin Booker will one day eclipse Kobe Bryant as an offensive player is a waste of time, yet here we are. it's too bad you could continue the conversation without being a condescending jerk above but it's pretty obvious when someone turns that way, they already know the argument is lost. let's continue anyway.

The league is in an era of inflated numbers and thus it is far more likely for a player to put up numbers like that today than it was even as recently as LeBron's prime.

Uh... Durant and Curry have played in this era. Neither of them have gotten to 30/7.

Kyrie Irving has played in this era. Never came close to 30/7.

Lillard has played in this era. Never one season of 30/7.

And on and on it goes. And all of the above are better offensive players than Booker.

I mean Westbrook averaged 31/10/10 just a couple years ago and I think we can agree that he isn't on those guys level's either.

I'd absolutely put Westbrook up there with a Wade (who's a notch below the others mentioned) and I don't know anyone that thinks Booker can at some point be prime Westbrook's equal offensively. Westbrook is a sure-fire HOFer. I don't know a single soul outside the valley of the Sun who would try to make the argument that Devin Booker's probably going to be as well.

I would guess no one would have believe like 5 years ago that Harden would ever be averaging 39 ppg and here we are.

We are only going to continue to see bigger and bigger numbers until they make some sort of rule change that slows the league back down or gives the defense some help. Neither will likely happen anytime soon.

Also not sure why you are taking the numbers so literally considering I clearly stated "something like" which means close to those two numbers.

They're the numbers YOU gave. Why you're surprised they're going to be used for comparison to others in the league is beyond me.

Maybe his best seasons will be a point or assist off or something, but I think his best years will be close to those numbers. If you were to count every time LeBron and MJ got close to those numbers you would get something more like 5-6 seasons apiece and the league was much lower scoring then.

ok.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

arguing with anyone who think Devin Booker will one day eclipse Kobe Bryant as an offensive player is a waste of time, yet here we are. it's too bad you could continue the conversation without being a condescending jerk above but it's pretty obvious when someone turns that way, they already know the argument is lost. let's continue anyway.



Uh... Durant and Curry have played in this era. Neither of them have gotten to 30/7.

Kyrie Irving has played in this era. Never came close to 30/7.

Lillard has played in this era. Never one season of 30/7.

And on and on it goes. And all of the above are better offensive players than Booker.



I'd absolutely put Westbrook up there with a Wade (who's a notch below the others mentioned) and I don't know anyone that thinks Booker can at some point be prime Westbrook's equal offensively. Westbrook is a sure-fire HOFer. I don't know a single soul outside the valley of the Sun who would try to make the argument that Devin Booker's probably going to be as well.



They're the numbers YOU gave. Why you're surprised they're going to be used for comparison to others in the league is beyond me.



ok.

I really was not trying to come off as condescending and I apologize that I did.

My point of it being a waste of time is that you really can't compare numbers to past eras as the pace of the game and the rules of the game have changed a lot.

The league is quickly trending into a higher and higher scoring league and I truly believe that averaging say 30/10 now would have been about the equivalent of averaging something like 25/7 just 10 years ago.

The only thing I said that I think might be a bit too optimistic was that he could be a better offensive player as I believe if prime Kobe was playing in the league right now he would probably be putting up close to 40 a game with 5-7 assists.

I do believe that Booker is a better shooter and is certainly trending into being a better passer, but he doesn't dominate one on ones as well as Kobe and will likely never be quite as good of a scorer because of that.

To be fair I also don't quite put Kobe in the same category as MJ or LeBron as an offensive talent. He is up there in raw scoring numbers, but both of those guys were much more efficient than Kobe.

And again I used those numbers as a general Idea. I never suggested that he will put up at least that much, but only that I could see him putting up numbers near those. Maybe they will be off by 1 or 2 one way or another, but I do believe his best year's will be around there. Unless of course he ends up on like a super-team or something in which it is really hard to really rack up scoring numbers like that.

 

[GatorAZ]

I can agree with that with the facilitating, but Booker is definitely a better shooter, especially from three.

I think he projects to be a better shooter but he has to do it over several meaningful seasons. I think Book is ultimately Joe Johnson with edge. So a better version of Joe.

 

[AzStevenCal]

For whatever it means, interrupted development or not, 23 year old Devin Booker moved into 15th tonight on the all time Suns scoring list during our game at Houston. According to an article on the Suns page at NBA com, Booker took the spot formerly held by Connie Hawkins.

 

[1Sun]

For whatever it means, interrupted development or not, 23 year old Devin Booker moved into 15th tonight on the all time Suns scoring list during our game at Houston. According to an article on NBA.com, Booker took the spot formerly held by Connie Hawkins.

And then the team folded as soon as he returned to the game in the 4th quarter with the team trailing by only 1 point...

 

[BC867]

For whatever it means, interrupted development or not, 23 year old Devin Booker moved into 15th tonight on the all time Suns scoring list during our game at Houston. According to an article on the Suns page at NBA com, Booker took the spot formerly held by Connie Hawkins.

Unfortunately, scoring stats do not necessarily equate to team growth.

 

[Hoop Head]

Some people won't be happy with what Booker does. If he passes too much then he's not being aggressive and looking to score like he should and if he scores too much then he's got tunnel vision and being a ball hog.

He's 23 years old and is not close to a finish product at this point. He's gotten where he is largely on his own since he hasn't had the opportunity to learn from a coach because the head coach has been canned every year he's been in the league. He'll learn what Monty wants and Monty will call for him to do more in time also. They've been together for just over 20 games, a quarter of the season.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Unfortunately, scoring stats do not necessarily equate to team growth.

They are without their two starting centers. They are a couple games under .500 with all kinds of injuries. They are still way ahead of where any of us expected them to be at this moment. Book is adjusting to a different kind of team ball. His defense is improved (earlier more than now) and his efficiency is significantly better.

If that isn’t team growth I do not know what is.

BC, it seems to me that your real gripe is that Book has too many turnovers. Ok fine. Agreed. He needs to take better care of the ball.

 

[82CardsGrad]

And then the team folded as soon as he returned to the game in the 4th quarter with the team trailing by only 1 point...

Booker = 35 points on 19 shots
Harden = 34 points on 27 shots

If the “team” can’t find a way to capitalize on Booker’s incredible efficiency, than I suggest the “team” is at fault and not Booker... [emoji6]

 

[BC867]

They are without their two starting centers. They are a couple games under .500 with all kinds of injuries. They are still way ahead of where any of us expected them to be at this moment. Book is adjusting to a different kind of team ball. His defense is improved (earlier more than now) and his efficiency is significantly better.

If that isn’t team growth I do not know what is.

BC, it seems to me that your real gripe is that Book has too many turnovers. Ok fine. Agreed. He needs to take better care of the ball.

I didn't want to keep this going, JC but, in response, my real gripe is that I feel that Devin needs to
devote his energy to playing Shooting Guard on offense and defense.

Keeping the third responsibility of being the de-facto backup Point Guard (even when a backup
Point Guard is on the floor) diminishes what he does best (shooting) and needs to improve
(defense). But it is still happening.

Of course, any Shooting Guard who can facilitate other players when being double-teamed is a
plus. It is part of a 2-Guard's job. But, once and for all, Devin needs to stop trying to be Harden.

As I posted, when the top free throw shooter in the league starts bricking them, it indicates
fatigue. Hopefully that will inspire Monty to do what is best for Booker . . . and the Suns.

Please tell me what part of what I've just posted you disagree with, if any.

Thanks.

 

[Phrazbit]

I didn't want to keep this going, JC but, in response, my real gripe is that I feel that Devin needs to
devote his energy to playing Shooting Guard on offense and defense.

Keeping the third responsibility of being the de-facto backup Point Guard (even when a backup
Point Guard is on the floor) diminishes what he does best (shooting) and needs to improve
(defense). But it is still happening.

Of course, any Shooting Guard who can facilitate other players when being double-teamed is a
plus. It is part of a 2-Guard's job. But, once and for all, Devin needs to stop trying to be Harden.

As I posted, when the top free throw shooter in the league starts bricking them, it indicates
fatigue. Hopefully that will inspire Monty to do what is best for Booker . . . and the Suns.

Please tell me what part of what I've just posted you disagree with, if any.

Thanks.

The problem is that what you are saying does not connect in any way at all with the reality of the current Suns. Everyone would like to see Booker become an all-around phenomenal player, and IMO, this season he is taking strides in that direction. The ONLY part I see him struggling with is measuring when to try and take over games, which would lend itself to him handling the ball MORE, when the situation calls for it, not less.

 

[Hoop Head]

The problem is that what you are saying does not connect in any way at all with the reality of the current Suns. Everyone would like to see Booker become an all-around phenomenal player, and IMO, this season he is taking strides in that direction. The ONLY part I see him struggling with is measuring when to try and take over games, which would lend itself to him handling the ball MORE, when the situation calls for it, not less.

He needs the ball more but only to shoot it, he already averages too many assists for a shooting guard. He's not James Harden and he needs to stop trying to be.

He also can't get the ball before it crosses halfcourt because if he has to take it across midcourt that makes him a point guard, somehow.

So he needs the ball more, when he's ready to shoot, but only if he's made up his mind that he will shoot immediately so he doesn't get double teamed before he can get a shot off.

Booker is who he is. If someone thinks he's trying to be James Harden then they don't watch much Harden because the two are quite different players. He's 23 years old still. He will make some bad decisions from time to time, at least his bad decisions only result in turnovers rather than failed drug tests or future court dates. He's stepped up for this franchise well before he should have been asked to but he's handled it remarkably well. He's already shouldered more of a load than he or anyone else anticipated this season because Ayton is a ******* but that will work itself out.

Booker has dropped 50 and even 70 before but that didn't lead to wins. The Suns are winning this year, maybe not as much as some would like but they're much better than they've been at almost any point in Booker's tenure here as member of the team. He sees that he doesn't need to drop 50+ to get wins for them and when he scores 50 they can be beat still, so he's playing within himself a bit more while he finds the proper balance. He deserves a little time to find that balance since he's been forced to carry this team for the last 2 seasons on his own.

It will take more than 20 games to correct more than 140 or so games where he's played almost on his own.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Ok. But Booker is being double teamed all the time. The reason he is more efficient this year is because he is passing the ball. When Baynes comes back he will get more open looks and he will shoot more and facilitate less.

 

[1Sun]

He needs the ball more but only to shoot it, he already averages too many assists for a shooting guard. He's not James Harden and he needs to stop trying to be.

He also can't get the ball before it crosses halfcourt because if he has to take it across midcourt that makes him a point guard, somehow.

So he needs the ball more, when he's ready to shoot, but only if he's made up his mind that he will shoot immediately so he doesn't get double teamed before he can get a shot off.

Booker is who he is. If someone thinks he's trying to be James Harden then they don't watch much Harden because the two are quite different players. He's 23 years old still. He will make some bad decisions from time to time, at least his bad decisions only result in turnovers rather than failed drug tests or future court dates. He's stepped up for this franchise well before he should have been asked to but he's handled it remarkably well. He's already shouldered more of a load than he or anyone else anticipated this season because Ayton is a ******* but that will work itself out.

Booker has dropped 50 and even 70 before but that didn't lead to wins. The Suns are winning this year, maybe not as much as some would like but they're much better than they've been at almost any point in Booker's tenure here as member of the team. He sees that he doesn't need to drop 50+ to get wins for them and when he scores 50 they can be beat still, so he's playing within himself a bit more while he finds the proper balance. He deserves a little time to find that balance since he's been forced to carry this team for the last 2 seasons on his own.

It will take more than 20 games to correct more than 140 or so games where he's played almost on his own.

I actually agree with all of this. I just would like to see him not wither so much down the stretch of close games with the game on the line.

 

[95pro]

Ok. But Booker is being double teamed all the time. The reason he is more efficient this year is because he is passing the ball. When Baynes comes back he will get more open looks and he will shoot more and facilitate less.

Without Ayton or Baynes setting screens, people are coming of Rubio to double Booker, Booker is missing out on some quality screens since they have been out.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Simply put..... He's not good enough at his age to be the linchpin of a title winner. 3rd best player on a title squad? maybe. But even then he's with Klay, Bosh, Tony Parker, & Rondo, etc. And all of those dudes ball out on defense at every turn.

He is NOT. I repeat not, a top 2 title winner from a talent perspective. But his age says he can get better, so I hold out hope.

 

[Covert Rain]

Ok. But Booker is being double teamed all the time. The reason he is more efficient this year is because he is passing the ball. When Baynes comes back he will get more open looks and he will shoot more and facilitate less.

Yep. That is the big difference. In previous years he has nobody to pass to so he put up bad shots. I think this is the first year in which you are probably seeing him mature as a decision maker with the ball. He trusts guys more and gets them the ball for scores. He is more balanced this year and as you said when he has a full strength front court it's going to make things a big easier for him as well.

 

[1Sun]

Yep. That is the big difference. In previous years he has nobody to pass to so he put up bad shots. I think this is the first year in which you are probably seeing him mature as a decision maker with the ball. He trusts guys more and gets them the ball for scores. He is more balanced this year and as you said when he has a full strength front court it's going to make things a big easier for him as well.

But unfortunately he is still turning the ball over at an alarming rate, and his defense is regressing again.

 

[Covert Rain]

But unfortunately he is still turning the ball over at an alarming rate, and his defense is regressing again.

He has crept up again but he has also played a chunk of games without Ayton, Baynes and Rubio. Once again, during those stretches he is being asked to do everything.

 

[AzStevenCal]

But unfortunately he is still turning the ball over at an alarming rate, and his defense is regressing again.

Once again you're trying to make something major out of very little. Yes, Devin needs to cut down on his turnovers a little. But you should take a look at the leaders for turnovers per game.

Devin is averaging 3.91 turnovers per game, it would be nice if he could cut that down to around 3 per but that is hardly the big deal you make it out to be. Harden averages over 5 per game and Trae Young, Westbrook, Doncic and then Booker round out the top 5 and just behind Devin is Ben Simmons, Giannis, Lebron, Drummond, Bradley Beal, Paul George, Lavine, Kawhi, Embiid, Morant, Jrue Holiday and Julius Randle. That's pretty good company.

And in what way is his defense "regressing again"? And, "regressing again", makes me want to ask you when his defense regressed prior to this but I'm afraid you'll pull out a video of him in 3rd grade. Anyway, to me he looks like one of the better Suns defenders out there most nights, not great but above average usually. On a team minus a defensive anchor, I don't know how you could expect much more than that from your scoring guard.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Once again you're trying to make something major out of very little. Yes, Devin needs to cut down on his turnovers a little. But you should take a look at the leaders for turnovers per game.

Devin is averaging 3.91 turnovers per game, it would be nice if he could cut that down to around 3 per but that is hardly the big deal you make it out to be. Harden averages over 5 per game and Trae Young, Westbrook, Doncic and then Booker round out the top 5 and just behind Devin is Ben Simmons, Giannis, Lebron, Drummond, Bradley Beal, Paul George, Lavine, Kawhi, Embiid, Morant, Jrue Holiday and Julius Randle. That's pretty good company.

In what way is his defense "regressing again"? And, "regressing again" makes me want to ask you when his defense regressed prior to this but I'm afraid you'll pull out a video of him in 3rd grade. Anyway, to me he looks like one of the better Suns defenders out there most nights, not great but above average usually. On a team minus a defensive anchor, I don't know how you could expect much more than that from your scoring guard.

Yep... Harden, Trae Young, Westbrook, Doncic and Fox all have more TO's per game than Booker... and Simmons, Giannis, Steph Curry and LeBron are all essentially equal to Booker. Devin clearly has issues for certain!
And, I have now been to 2 games and in both, Booker was the best Suns defender whenever he was on the court.

 

[1Sun]

Once again you're trying to make something major out of very little. Yes, Devin needs to cut down on his turnovers a little. But you should take a look at the leaders for turnovers per game.

Devin is averaging 3.91 turnovers per game, it would be nice if he could cut that down to around 3 per but that is hardly the big deal you make it out to be. Harden averages over 5 per game and Trae Young, Westbrook, Doncic and then Booker round out the top 5 and just behind Devin is Ben Simmons, Giannis, Lebron, Drummond, Bradley Beal, Paul George, Lavine, Kawhi, Embiid, Morant, Jrue Holiday and Julius Randle. That's pretty good company.

And in what way is his defense "regressing again"? And, "regressing again", makes me want to ask you when his defense regressed prior to this but I'm afraid you'll pull out a video of him in 3rd grade. Anyway, to me he looks like one of the better Suns defenders out there most nights, not great but above average usually. On a team minus a defensive anchor, I don't know how you could expect much more than that from your scoring guard.

He started to show improvement defensively early last year as well and then reverted to old bad habits.

 

[AzStevenCal]

He started to show improvement defensively early last year as well and then reverted to old bad habits.

So far I have yet to miss a Devin Booker NBA game. I remember him making big plays defensively and making equally big mistakes on defense. I don't think his defense was ever as bad as his reputation suggests but I don't ever remember a point where it appeared he'd solved his mistakes and was now playing good defense. Even when we had that brief stretch with Oubre and Tyler last year, Booker's D was still the weak link. This year, that has not been the case.

Devin will never be a threat to win DPOY but he's not the defensive liability he has been in the past. And in the occasional games where he's being forced to run the offense it's understandable if his defense takes a hit. That's not regressing.

 

[1Sun]

So far I have yet to miss a Devin Booker NBA game. I remember him making big plays defensively and making equally big mistakes on defense. I don't think his defense was ever as bad as his reputation suggests but I don't ever remember a point where it appeared he'd solved his mistakes and was now playing good defense. Even when we had that brief stretch with Oubre and Tyler last year, Booker's D was still the weak link. This year, that has not been the case.

Devin will never be a threat to win DPOY but he's not the defensive liability he has been in the past. And in the occasional games where he's being forced to run the offense it's understandable if his defense takes a hit. That's not regressing.

If that's the case, then BC is right. Booker needs to not be running the offense.