Kyler Murray in 5 Years

Where will Kyler Rank in 5 Years?


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Solar7

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He's 3" taller with slightly longer arms. Do you seriously think that makes a huge difference?
Yes, I do. Less than 7 shorter QBs have thrown an NFL pass than Russell Wilson have thrown a pass since the merger. It is a factor. I know you're going to just keep sticking your fingers in your ears and saying 'I can't hear you,' but there isn't a conspiracy against poor unfortunate short QBs. Mayfield isn't tiny, and isn't a valid defense of your argument. Murray is historically short.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

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Yes, I do. Less than 7 shorter QBs have thrown an NFL pass than Russell Wilson have thrown a pass since the merger. It is a factor. I know you're going to just keep sticking your fingers in your ears and saying 'I can't hear you,' but there isn't a conspiracy against poor unfortunate short QBs. Mayfield isn't tiny, and isn't a valid defense of your argument. Murray is historically short.
He is actually about 2" shorter than Mayfield and 1" shorter than Wilson. The fact that you think there is some magical number between 5'10" and 5'11" that make it so unlikely for Murray to succeed is just laughable to me.
 

Solar7

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He's 2 1/4" taller with slightly longer arms. Do you seriously think that makes a huge difference?

Baker was 6' 3/8" and 216 pounds and Murray is 5' 10 1/8" and 208 pounds.
You edited your post after I already replied. Yes, I think it matters. I think successful 6'0 QBs are extreme outliers, and I know that Kyler is even tinier. It really, really does matter.

Maybe Kyler's other gifts have enough merit to make up for this. Maybe. But it matters. It is a factor to questioning him, no matter how much you keep telling me it doesn't matter because you have decided it doesn't.
 

Solar7

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He is actually about 2" shorter than Mayfield and 1" shorter than Wilson. The fact that you think there is some magical number between 5'10" and 5'11" that make it so unlikely for Murray to succeed is just laughable to me.
You don't get it, and still don't get it. It's insanely frustrating.

I think there is a HUGE difference between 5'11 and 6'2. I think that the evidence that it has worked out for exactly ONE dude, does not make it a sudden truth that it will work for all guys. You're ignoring essentially all measurables and just saying Kyler overcomes them for reasons. You know why you're ignoring all measurables? Because besides his height, Kyler did nothing else but stand on a scale once, so you can't even quantify it.
 

Krangodnzr

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He is actually about 2" shorter than Mayfield and 1" shorter than Wilson. The fact that you think there is some magical number between 5'10" and 5'11" that make it so unlikely for Murray to succeed is just laughable to me.

Yep it's crazy. Solar has this strange idea that someone who is 6'2 can see over someone who is 6'5.

QBs dont see over the line, they see around the line. You know....like the spaces between linemen. That's what Kurt Warner said.

I made this same stupid argument until I realized its ********. It's like believing that you get sick if you walk around on a cold day when your head is wet. It's a myth.
 

Krangodnzr

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Yes, I do. Less than 7 shorter QBs have thrown an NFL pass than Russell Wilson have thrown a pass since the merger. It is a factor. I know you're going to just keep sticking your fingers in your ears and saying 'I can't hear you,' but there isn't a conspiracy against poor unfortunate short QBs. Mayfield isn't tiny, and isn't a valid defense of your argument. Murray is historically short.

No it's called a bias.

Did you know that Americans believed Japanese couldn't fly planes well before Pearl Harbor because of their slanted eyes?
 

slanidrac16

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Yes, I do. Less than 7 shorter QBs have thrown an NFL pass than Russell Wilson have thrown a pass since the merger. It is a factor. I know you're going to just keep sticking your fingers in your ears and saying 'I can't hear you,' but there isn't a conspiracy against poor unfortunate short QBs. Mayfield isn't tiny, and isn't a valid defense of your argument. Murray is historically short.
Yes he is . But you cannot compare era’s. A short immobile qb would not have a chance in any era. The game has change Solar. You know that. As I mentioned in another thread take the time and pull up some tape on Mahomes. His mobility allows him to extend plays that totally negates height. Murray is quicker and just as accurate as Mahomes. Many plays it wouldn’t matter if Mahomes was 5’1” tall.

Kingsbury is not going to make Murray sit in the pocket play after play. That would be foolish and very much under utilising his ability. The age of “I’ll meet you at the quarterback” are over my friend. This offense is going to make defenses worry about containing rather than all out attacking.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

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You don't get it, and still don't get it. It's insanely frustrating.

I think there is a HUGE difference between 5'11 and 6'2. I think that the evidence that it has worked out for exactly ONE dude, does not make it a sudden truth that it will work for all guys. You're ignoring essentially all measurables and just saying Kyler overcomes them for reasons. You know why you're ignoring all measurables? Because besides his height, Kyler did nothing else but stand on a scale once, so you can't even quantify it.
Exactly one dude? There has been more than one dude that has been successful while being short. The fact that you don't seem to acknowledge that is pretty frustrating. Wilson is 1" taller and makes a large percentage of his throws from the pocket, Brees 2" taller and is a pure pocket passer, Mayfield 2" taller and makes a high percentage of his throws from the pocket, Sonny Jurgenson 1" taller and was one of the better QBs from the 60s-70s, Theisman was 2" taller and was quite good in the early to mid 80s.

I believe that if you are going to be a stationary drop back type QB that is running a lot of 3 step drops than being 5'10" might be tough, but if you are utilized in a lot of shotgun and 5-7 step drops than being 5'10" isn't going to be much of factor in the end. That is how guys like Mayfield, Brees and Wilson are being utilized in this day and age (and how Murray will be utilized) and that is a big part of why they can be successful despite being quite a bit smaller than the prototypical 6'3" - 6'5" NFL QB.
 

Crimson Warrior

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Uh no it's not. Wilson is a better player....and he doesnt miss tons of time due to injuries....and hes been to two Super Bowls....

Of course you're right here Krang. You look at each players production over their careers, and its not very close.

If you're point is that, "with hindsight, who would you pick, Luck or Wilson?". Of course the answer is Wilson.
 
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Crimson Warrior

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You don't get it, and still don't get it. It's insanely frustrating.

I think there is a HUGE difference between 5'11 and 6'2. I think that the evidence that it has worked out for exactly ONE dude, does not make it a sudden truth that it will work for all guys. You're ignoring essentially all measurables and just saying Kyler overcomes them for reasons. You know why you're ignoring all measurables? Because besides his height, Kyler did nothing else but stand on a scale once, so you can't even quantify it.

Everyone Solar7, everyone sir, concedes that there is some correlation between height, and success as an NFL QB.

Ceteris Paribus, a guy who is 6' 2" has a better chance than a guy who is 5' 10" of being successful as a QB in the NFL (how much better is debatable, but at least a marginally better chance).

Okay? Can you acknowledge that I agree with you on this point?

But then will you also please concede that Wilson sets a precedent for Murray to be successful? That's all that CardsDbacksSuns, Slanidrac16 and Krang are asking from you in this thread sir. We can then (mercifully) move on to other issues.
 

Crimson Warrior

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CW- What are the odds that Murray turns into a Wilson type QB? You act like its almost a sure thing that he will be that type player.s I stated ..playing Qb and being a successful high level Qb is a very tough thing to do and most do not climb to that level.Most become average or less QBs .That might mean a decent career and maybe everything hits just right and you get a Super Bowl winner.It has happened.Murrays success in college means absolute jackshit in the NFL.You believe Murray is more athletic and a better passer based on what? beating up on piss poor defenses in the BIG 12? Murray is in the big boys league now and every week is going to be facing good defenses..there are not Rice or TCu or Baylors on the schedule.Being smaller can not be seen as any kind of advantage no matter how Murray fans try and spin it.Just another possible obstacle to try and overcome.
IMO being the TOP PICK in the entire draft means expectations are higher,pressure is more and no mulligans from me.You guys got what you asked for so ……..we will see what happens.You guys have already tempered your predictions down and added several reasons why Murray could have a rocky rookie season (OLINE,rookie HC,Rookie WRS etc)…..funny how those didn`t seen to matter in Rosens case.

Alright, good post. You have a much more reasonable approach than Solar7.

First bolded - Well that's the heart of the matter isn't BW52? You've hit the nail on the head so to speak. Here's what I think - 60% chance Murray is equal to RW, 15% chance Murray is better than RW, and 25% chance that Kyler is worse than RW. I hope you perceive that as reasonable, even if you disagree, and I'd like your breakdown as well please sir.

Second bolded - agree 100%, and its why its so rare that you see video-game-like performances on Sunday. The 11 defenders across the line from a pro QB are (for the most part) physically and mentally ultra-elite in terms of football skills. And they're not playing for a scholarship. They're playing for their livelihood. To feed their kids, and pay for their wife's bull*hit spending. :) That's a scary combination, and Murray has his work cut out for him.

Third bolded - disagree that its "meaningless" sir. While Murray's success in college certainly, certainly doesn't guarantee success at the pro level, it still indicates that, if given the right opportunity, the right set of circumstances, he can function at an elite level as a QB. It's good to know it's at least possible that Murray can dominate a game. Not saying it's critical BW52, just saying it's not meaningless.

Fourth bolded - remember I said slightly more athletic and talented. :) IMHO, Murray is a little faster than RW. A little more shifty (i.e. a better runner). I think he also has a slightly better arm, and throws on the run a little better that Wilson. However, this part is just my opinion, and only based on my uneducated observations.

Fifth bolded - you're right, and I'll probably be disappointed when doesn't dominate DET like he did TCU. Trying to get myself ready for his first three-interception game. There is certainly one on the horizon.

Sixth bolded - We're just trying to be realistic BW52. Trying to set up a fair set of expectations by which to judge Murray's performance this year. It's true that I will probably be one of the last ones off the bandwagon if Murray crashes and burns, but I love the Cardinals more than I love any single player, and won't hesitate to say he should be benched if he deserves it.

Seventh bolded - I feel pretty bad for Rosen. But I'm glad he has another opportunity, and I wish him well (unless he's playing us).

Thanks, looks forward to hearing from you on the first bolded issue, and hope you and yours have a good memorial day weekend.
 
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Crimson Warrior

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What's lost in all these comparisons to other short QBs of the past is that Murray is a top
1% athlete.

That's why, with his elite passing ability he has a chance to be great.

If he were 6'5, he would be the best QB prospect EVER to come out. Ever. Ever.

Right?

Nobody is saying that Murray isn't bucking the trend. We get it. Being 5' 10" is a liability.

But he does everything else at an all-world level.
 

Krangodnzr

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Right?

Nobody is saying that Murray isn't bucking the trend. We get it. Being 5' 10" is a liability.

But he does everything else at an all-world level.

This is how I see it.

If you have followed this board closely, you recognize I did a monumental flip on Murray. I was Solar7 before he came into the fray.

But I went out and dug into Kyler Murray with an open mind and I became convinced that not only was he hands down the best player in the draft, I also believe he can be a transcendent player.

Every player has his warts and his wart is his height. His play on the field is remarkable. The last player I felt this way about was Patrick Mahomes. And Murray was better than Mahomes.

If he fails I think it will be injuries. Hes just so talented, works so hard, and has a natural feel for the quarterback position that I don't see him failing because of play.

All that hogwash talk about work ethic, what have the Cardinals players said about him? He came in right away, has an amazing command of the offense and works his ass off. We've all encountered those people who are driven to be great and Murray has been wired that way since he was a small child.
 

kerouac9

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This is how I see it.

If you have followed this board closely, you recognize I did a monumental flip on Murray. I was Solar7 before he came into the fray.

But I went out and dug into Kyler Murray with an open mind and I became convinced that not only was he hands down the best player in the draft, I also believe he can be a transcendent player.

Every player has his warts and his wart is his height. His play on the field is remarkable. The last player I felt this way about was Patrick Mahomes. And Murray was better than Mahomes.

If he fails I think it will be injuries. Hes just so talented, works so hard, and has a natural feel for the quarterback position that I don't see him failing because of play.

All that hogwash talk about work ethic, what have the Cardinals players said about him? He came in right away, has an amazing command of the offense and works his ass off. We've all encountered those people who are driven to be great and Murray has been wired that way since he was a small child.

Link PLZ
 

Krangodnzr

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Marcus Gilbert
“I feel like he’s very comfortable in this setting. It’s a match made in heaven for him. He’s very professional in how he carries himself. It’s almost like he’s been running this offense for quite some time because he’s picked it up really fast. He’s getting the line set, the receivers set. We have to do more adjusting than he does.

“He handles himself like a professional. He talks to everybody. You can’t ask much more from what he’s doing. … I haven’t seen many guys come in this league as a rookie and command the offense the way he’s commanding the offense and picking up the playbook as quick as he’s picked it up. He’s very sharp with his tools. This guy is going to be the leader of the ship.

“The way he throws the ball I haven’t seen anything like that. I think he’s one of the prettier accurate passers I’ve seen. Not in game settings but in a practice setting it’s pretty impressive how he can squeeze the ball in tight places and his reads are very quick. To make reads like that as a young guy, that’s really impressive.”
 

Krangodnzr

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Another one

Justin Pugh
“He has confidence and poise calling the plays and when you have confidence as a quarterback you instill that in the guys you’re commanding in the huddle. … Every throw so far, has any one not been perfectly thrown? I mean there are some things when you stop and we’re watching on film and you’re like, ‘There’s not many people on this planet who can do what he’s doing.’ But again you have to prove it when the pads are on and there’s live bullets.”
 

BW52

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Alright, good post. You have a much more reasonable approach than Solar7.

First bolded - Well that's the heart of the matter isn't BW52? You've hit the nail on the head so to speak. Here's what I think - 60% chance Murray is equal to RW, 15% chance Murray is better than RW, and 25% chance that Kyler is worse than RW. I hope you perceive that as reasonable, even if you disagree, and I'd like your breakdown as well please sir.

Second bolded - agree 100%, and its why its so rare that you see video-game-like performances on Sunday. The 11 defenders across the line from a pro QB are (for the most part) physically and mentally ultra-elite in terms of football skills. And they're not playing for a scholarship. They're playing for their livelihood. To feed their kids, and pay for their wife's bull*hit spending. :) That's a scary combination, and Murray has his work cut out for him.

Third bolded - disagree that its "meaningless" sir. While Murray's success in college certainly, certainly doesn't guarantee success at the pro level, it still indicates that, if given the right opportunity, the right set of circumstances, he can function at an elite level as a QB. It's good to know it's at least possible that Murray can dominate a game. Not saying it's critical BW52, just saying it's not meaningless.

Fourth bolded - remember I said slightly more athletic and talented. :) IMHO, Murray is a little faster than RW. A little more shifty (i.e. a better runner). I think he also has a slightly better arm, and throws on the run a little better that Wilson. However, this part is just my opinion, and only based on my uneducated observations.

Fifth bolded - you're right, and I'll probably be disappointed when doesn't dominate DET like he did TCU. Trying to get myself ready for his first three-interception game. There is certainly one on the horizon.

Sixth bolded - We're just trying to be realistic BW52. Trying to set up a fair set of expectations by which to judge Murray's performance this year. It's true that I will probably be one of the last ones off the bandwagon if Murray crashes and burns, but I love the Cardinals more than I love any single player, and won't hesitate to say he should be benched if he deserves it.

Seventh bolded - I feel pretty bad for Rosen. But I'm glad he has another opportunity, and I wish him well (unless he's playing us).

Thanks, looks forward to hearing from you on the first bolded issue, and hope you and yours have a good memorial day weekend.

1STbolded-25% Murray is equal to Wilson
10% Murray is better than Wilson
65 % Murray is worse than Wilson

2nd bolded-agree
3rd BOLDED-disagree.College headlines mean nothing in the NFL.NFL game is much better.
4TH BOLDED-we will have ti see how it plays out versus REAL NFL competition.
5TH BOLDED-agree
6TH BOLDED-Agree.Love the Cards.Hate the pick.
7TH BOLDED-Rosen was effed over by SK.


Have a safe and Happy Holliday.Enjoy.:cheers:
 

NJCardFan

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Uh no it's not. Wilson is a better player....and he doesnt miss tons of time due to injuries....and hes been to two Super Bowls....
Being to 2 Super Bowls isn't any kind of barometer. If winning a SB makes a QB then we should expect the HOF induction of Trent Dilfer and Jim McMahon at any moment? Truth is, neither time Seattle went to the Super Bowl was it done on Wilson's back.
 

Krangodnzr

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Being to 2 Super Bowls isn't any kind of barometer. If winning a SB makes a QB then we should expect the HOF induction of Trent Dilfer and Jim McMahon at any moment? Truth is, neither time Seattle went to the Super Bowl was it done on Wilson's back.

This is a ridiculous take. Neither of those guys were ever MVP candidates like Russell Wilson has been.
 

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