Best Coach In Suns History

Hoop Head

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Saw mention of who the all time best Suns coach was in the John MacLeod thread and didn't want to see a thread about someone's passing be taken over with a debate like that. Figured I would start a new thread to keep the debate here rather than furthering it there. It's basically the offseason for us anyways and this is as good of a time as any to debate things like this.

Who do you think is the best head coach in Suns history?

I was going to make a poll but I think for this people should back up the choice with some reasoning. Of course if you want to just state who you think the best Suns coach was you are welcome to do so but if you don't provide reason for that choice don't be surprised to be questioned.
 
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Hoop Head

Hoop Head

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I think there are 4 that can be debated, possibly more but the 4 I see mentioned the most are D'Antoni, Westphal, MacLeod, and Cotton.

I'd say Cotton because he coached during a few different eras and was successful in each of them. He just knew basketball and what a team needed to do in order to win. He didn't always have the players to compete for a title but I think he overachieved with the Suns prior to Barkley's arrival. They were a good team but I think they won a bit more than they would have if Westphal had been made head coach in the late 80's.

Westphal had a lot of success as the Suns coach by being in the right place at the right time. I don't mean to downplay his involvement but I believe if Cotton stayed on the bench then we would have made it back to the finals in Barkley's time here rather than falling short after that first year. If we won a title though, that's unknown.

D'Antoni was successful as our coach but I think he's proven he needs a certain type of player to run his system and without that he can't really coach a team to any sort of success, regular season or otherwise. If he has that player to be his quarterback then he looks like a genius but without it he's exposed.

I didn't watch the Suns with MacLeod as I wasn't old enough to watch when he coached but I've heard a lot about how he coached a fastbreak style and made the Suns enjoyable to watch and I'll give credit to him for making a lasting impression on those that did see him on the sidelines.
 

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Mike has a title or two with some better injury luck and lesser financial restrictions. Granted he was the GM for 1-2 years but I don’t think he was behind deals for cash considerations...
 
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Hoop Head

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Mike has a title or two with some better injury luck and lesser financial restrictions. Granted he was the GM for 1-2 years but I don’t think he was behind deals for cash considerations...

From what I recall he was one of the bigger advocates for Marcus Banks and I think most Suns fan recall how that turned out. He still doesn't know how to properly use a backup PG. He has Chris Paul now and rather than using him to allow Harden more time to rest he keeps both on the floor together too much. If he could learn to rely on someone besides his MVP I think he'd have a title but until he does that I think he deserves some blame for the injuries his stars have suffered that have kept him from winning a title.
 

Raindog

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You guys are all pretty well summing up my thoughts on the matter. And yes, Cotton, MacLeod, D'Antoni, and Westphal are really the only ones worthy of consideration in the 50 years of the franchise existing. There haven't been many coaching luminaries here in all that time.

I guess if someone forced me to pick fifth place, I would have to say Alvin Gentry. After that... well, there really isn't much more to choose from.
 

Mainstreet

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My favorite coach is Cotton. It can be debated as to who is best.

Those D'Antoni years were fun.
 

Bobster

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I would say MacLeod may have done the most with the least. That 1976 team had no business being in the NBA Finals, and yet there they were nearly taking a 3-2 league over Boston. The 1979 team was thisclose to defeating eventual champion Seattle and advancing to the finals to play a short-handed Bullets team. The biggest failure was 1981 when they should have easily handled Kansas City (and Cotton) in the first round. His best team did play in an era (the second half of the 70's) when the league had much better parity and the top teams didn't win as many games as they do now so there weren't many gaudy win totals.

Basically, McLeod had C. Scott, Adams, Davis, Heard, Westphal, Robinson, DJ and Nance; Cotton had Silas, Hawkins, Van Arsdale, Haskins, Walk, Chambers, KJ, EJ, West and Hornacek; and D'Antoni had Nash, Marion, Johnson, Bell, Diaw and Stoudemire. So they all had a lot of talent, MacLeod had a down period in the 80's when the team unraveled off the court, Cotton counld never get the Suns over the hump to make the playoffs in the 70's or the Finals in the 80's and D'antoni was only here for 4 years. So tough call.
 

Dr. Jones

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Gotta be Cotton IMO

MacLeod would be my #2 with Dantoni & Westphal just behind.
 

JCSunsfan

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Gotta be Cotton IMO

MacLeod would be my #2 with Dantoni & Westphal just behind.
DAntoni was our best coach. Even with his flaws.
Cotton was second, but he had a LOT of talent.
Westphal, was a good x and o guy but struggled relating to players.
MacLeod comes after that. He was a very frustrating coach who was more of a manager than coach.
 

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From what I recall he was one of the bigger advocates for Marcus Banks and I think most Suns fan recall how that turned out. He still doesn't know how to properly use a backup PG. He has Chris Paul now and rather than using him to allow Harden more time to rest he keeps both on the floor together too much. If he could learn to rely on someone besides his MVP I think he'd have a title but until he does that I think he deserves some blame for the injuries his stars have suffered that have kept him from winning a title.

I remember that signing thinking Banks could come and play some defense but he was out of shape and a poor fit. Yet they gave him a 5-year deal which helped contribute to dumping KT. I remember him getting Simmons’ LVP award back in the day.

http://www.espn.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/070417&sportCat=nba
 

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Cotton for me, though I wouldn’t argue against D’Antoni.

Westphal took over Cotton’s team, so only partial credit for development as an assistant, but he did take them to the finals in his first year, so he made the most of it. He does have to wear those two subsequent playoff losses to the Rockets, which remain brutally disappointing.

I think D’Antoni could have won with some breaks. I sort of think Westphal should have won. Should have gone back to the finals at least.

My memories of McLeod are too hazy to say whether I’d rank him ahead of Westphal or not. But he DID go to the finals himself.
 

Cheesebeef

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Cotton... always got the absolute most out of his talent. Can't say the same for Westy or D'Antoni who had enough talent to win at least one title each.

And I even put Westy about DA for two reasons: Finals appearance and playing the 3 peat Bulls as tough as anyone and The First Round Guarantee.
 

Chaplin

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I liked DA, but I'm surprised how much love he's getting. His job was incredibly easy. He only played 7 players deep and half his coaching was being done by his starting point guard. He didn't coach defense and we all know Nash coached the offense more than DA did.
 

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Cotton... always got the absolute most out of his talent. Can't say the same for Westy or D'Antoni who had enough talent to win at least one title each.

And I even put Westy about DA for two reasons: Finals appearance and playing the 3 peat Bulls as tough as anyone and The First Round Guarantee.

Choking in 95’ with a 3-1 lead and losing g7 at home takes the cake over anything that happened from 05-10’ IMO. They also had a 2-0 lead in 94’ and lost in 7. Even though they went to the finals in 93’ they were 0-3 at home in the series... I was too young to feel it but the mid-90’s era would’ve left a more sour taste in my mouth than the mid-00’s.
 

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I liked DA, but I'm surprised how much love he's getting. His job was incredibly easy. He only played 7 players deep and half his coaching was being done by his starting point guard. He didn't coach defense and we all know Nash coached the offense more than DA did.

Players >> coaches but Nash literally went from good to MVP after teaming up with D’Antoni. He was before his time...

I won’t argue putting the Banks signing on Mike but the Suns were dumping picks for two years before Mike was GM. That is ownership pinching pennies. They should’ve been building depth with a championship in mind.
 

Cheesebeef

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Choking in 95’ with a 3-1 lead and losing g7 at home takes the cake over anything that happened from 05-10’ IMO. They also had a 2-0 lead in 94’ and lost in 7. Even though they went to the finals in 93’ they were 0-3 at home in the series... I was too young to feel it but the mid-90’s era would’ve left a more sour taste in my mouth than the mid-00’s.

no way. That Finals run alone tops anything the Nash teams did, cumulatively. Anyone who watched that run and is old enough to remember it knows that was the single greatest season in Suns history. That team was BELOVED. The entire town turned purple and orange during that run. Can still remember the HUGE Suns jersey hanging on the statue of the Phoenix across the street from the Biltmore. And it just had the greatest moments in our playoff history. I remember going to Sky Harbor at 1 in the morning to welcome the team back from LA with probably 1000 people after they tied the series 2-2. Barkley's epic Game 5 against the Spurs where we looked like crap and he put something like 40/20. His series ender over Robinson in SA. The epic Game 5 he and Majerle had in swing Game 5 against the Sonics where Barkley went nuts again for like 40/15 and Majerle hit 7 threes and then the best game in Suns history... Game 7 against the Sonics to go to the Finals where Chuck put up 44/24/6. Just one of the greatest big game performances ever. The Finals had their ups and downs and arguably the BIGGEST down in Suns history in Game 6, especially because i had freaking tickets to GAME 7, but I still remember the 30T Game 3 classic and the Save The City Game 5 wins clear as day.

That said, the double choke jobs were BEYOND PAINFUL, but I attribute some of it from Barkley's injuries in the playoffs. Both years, he was destroying the playoffs and his back messed him up in 1994. And in 1995, we were cruising to a 64 win pace when Manning blew out his ACL. They could have folded and had a dip mid season but rallied to be a 59 win team and we were well on our way to taking care of those motherf'ers in Houston, looking to close the series in Houston in Game 6 where Barkley had 27 points in the first half then completely f'ed his knee when he landed awkwardly on Elie's foot. Dude could barely move in Game 7, where he still valiantly put up 17/23 and we lost on that Elie's Kiss Of Death 3 pointer.

As for DA, yes, he had JJ's injury, but that team wasn't ready and he definitely brought a new wave of sunshine to the Valley with the 2004-5 club. Don't fault him there. Dude deserves credit for making that team insanely fun to watch, but i never really thought they had a shot against SA that year and that was fine. I mean, SA dominated us in the regular season when everyone was healthy and the only game we won that year came during the infamous SARVER CHICKEN DANCE game when that idiot mocked the Spurs for being "scared" of the Suns resting some of their key players... which of course they almost won anyway. But even in 2004-5, remember that team was 0-3 at home versus the Spurs in the WCF. And I think he did his best job the next year without Amare when injuries took it's toll on that team, but even that team was 1-2 in the WCF at home. My biggest problem with him was the 2006-7 season. I think he got totally mind-fracked by Pop and had that whole team tighter than a nun's butthole which is why they exploded after the Horry cheap shot. And remember, he put us in a hole AGAIN that year by refusing to start KT in Game 1 against the Spurs, giving up HCA immediately by starting JAMES FREAKING JONES. And then burned the Suns out playing a 6 man rotation while already down 2 players in Game 5. Another series where we went 1-2 at home to end the season. Yes, the suspensions hurt us, especially the Diaw one which was complete BS, but I have no faith that team would have been loose enough to eventually win a Game 7 at home against Pop and that Spurs team.

And the next season just sucked where we got owned again by the Spurs when DA couldn't figure out how to combat hack-a-Shaq.

We just never had those almost peak of mountain moments with DA like we did with Westy in that first year. It was the greatest year of basketball I've ever seen and for that, he gets the slight nod.
 

1Sun

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Choking in 95’ with a 3-1 lead and losing g7 at home takes the cake over anything that happened from 05-10’ IMO. They also had a 2-0 lead in 94’ and lost in 7. Even though they went to the finals in 93’ they were 0-3 at home in the series... I was too young to feel it but the mid-90’s era would’ve left a more sour taste in my mouth than the mid-00’s.

They certainly did to me. I have always thought Westphal was overrated as a coach, and his history post-Suns pretty much proves that.

And, by the way, the 2-0 lead in '94 was with both wins on the road.
 

JCSunsfan

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I liked DA, but I'm surprised how much love he's getting. His job was incredibly easy. He only played 7 players deep and half his coaching was being done by his starting point guard. He didn't coach defense and we all know Nash coached the offense more than DA did.
I think it is more about the level of competition. Cotton was not a great coach. He had some of the most talented rosters ever. He did not mess it up, but it should not have been hard to coach the teams he did.

DA had a philosophy and made it work. His system had flaws, but it was revolutionary and changed the NBA.
 

BC867

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I think there are 4 that can be debated, possibly more but the 4 I see mentioned the most are D'Antoni, Westphal, MacLeod, and Cotton.

I'd say Cotton because he coached during a few different eras and was successful in each of them. He just knew basketball and what a team needed to do in order to win. He didn't always have the players to compete for a title but I think he overachieved with the Suns prior to Barkley's arrival. They were a good team but I think they won a bit more than they would have if Westphal had been made head coach in the late 80's.

Westphal had a lot of success as the Suns coach by being in the right place at the right time. I don't mean to downplay his involvement but I believe if Cotton stayed on the bench then we would have made it back to the finals in Barkley's time here rather than falling short after that first year. If we won a title though, that's unknown.

D'Antoni was successful as our coach but I think he's proven he needs a certain type of player to run his system and without that he can't really coach a team to any sort of success, regular season or otherwise. If he has that player to be his quarterback then he looks like a genius but without it he's exposed.

I didn't watch the Suns with MacLeod as I wasn't old enough to watch when he coached but I've heard a lot about how he coached a fastbreak style and made the Suns enjoyable to watch and I'll give credit to him for making a lasting impression on those that did see him on the sidelines.

I agree with your assessment, particularly about Cotton being #1 (a players' coach) for the reasons you mentioned. Also your comments about both Westy and D'Antoni.

As I previously posted, I didn't like John MacLeod establishing the Suns as a "finesse" team, with his boy at college occupying the Center position as a lightweight,
forcing every Power Forward alongside him to cover. Statistically, Adams best season was his first, when he took the NBA by surprise. He should have been moved
to Forward when the novelty wore off, but he remained the primary Center for most of his career.
 

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They certainly did to me. I have always thought Westphal was overrated as a coach, and his history post-Suns pretty much proves that.

And, by the way, the 2-0 lead in '94 was with both wins on the road.

And the path was wide open with Jordan playing baseball. I would liked to have seen the odds on favorite to win it all going into 94’. It had to be the Suns... As Cheese mentioned both eras dealt with injuries but IMO, Amare’s micro fracture was the most significant. He took the league by storm along w/ Nash and then it’s announced he’s probably done for the year in October.

He came back fine but some of his explosiveness was zapped. Imagine the momentum with a healthy Amare coming back that year with Raja/Diaw added... They would’ve run that old ass Heat team out of the building.
 

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