Cardinals' HC Search Thoughts Part VI

Mitch

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So Mike Munchak prefers to stay in Pittsburgh. What I found curious about his press release statement is that he didn't thank Michael Bidwill and the Cardinals for their consideration of him. To me, his statement was intended to elate Steelers' fans who have become tired of Arizona trying to be Pittsburgh West. The irony is that the Steelers fans were tepid at best about Ken Whisenhunt and they were delighted and even delirious to see Bruce Arians move on. But it's the Cardinals' signing of Steelers' free agents that irks them more than anything else---it goes back to All Pro G Alan Faneca. That one really stuck in their craws.

Upon further review...I think I may have misread MB's declaration that "we don't copycat anyone." I thought for sure that he was talking about considering a young HC (JDF), like the Rams did last year when they hired Sean McVay. The added context to this is that it was reported that Bidwill had interest in McVay last year when BA's health was a concern. And when Bidwill mentioned the copycat comment, it was at a time when it appeared the Cardinals did not have an interest in meeting for second time with DeFilippo.

But now I wonder---was the copycat comment a reference to the Steelers and the Cardinals' habit of interviewing their coaches and trying to sign their free agents?

Because since that comment, Munchak declined a 2nd interview and the Cardinals have requested a 2nd interview with JDF. Perhaps JDF is back in the picture because of Pat Shurmur's reported wink wink deal with the Giants. But, nevertheless, Flip is back in the picture. And that gets me excited---for one simple reason: this is the year when the Cardinals finally have to acquire their QBOF and the thought of putting that QB in the best possible hands, in the same system under the same head coach hopefully for the next 10 years, makes complete sense.

Some are saying, yeah, but why not just hired Flip as OC? What? To have another Todd Bowles scenario where he's a HC somewhere else in 1 or 2 years? What would that mean for the QBOF? Would we want another Blaine Gabbert scenario where he goes through a different OC every year?

The other thing is---Flip is being interviewed as a head coach. If head coach is off the table, he is going to take the best OC job he is offered. Chances are, under those circumstances, he won't pick the Cardinals.

Going back to Munchak for a minute, what I wonder is whether Bidwill pushed DC James Bettcher on him and Munchak pushed back.

Bertrand Berry yesterday made the point that the new HC of the Cardinals should not and cannot accept retaining James Bettcher as DC. He said that because Bettcher threw his hat in the ring as one of the HC candidates, if John DeFilippo or Brian Flores or Keith Armstrong gets the job, Bettcher would quite understandably question "why him, and not me?"

I can relate. Yes on a high school level. I know----rinky dink analogy. But, I was hired to try to turn around a football team that hadn't won a game in three years---and they were so bad that the prestigious league they were in was threatening to drop the school from the league if it didn't become competitive in football. I turned the offer down twice and then they called me back a third time and offered me more money and a faculty house, rent free. It was tough to turn that down.

However, once I arrived on campus i was told by the Athletic Director (who was one of the past 2 head coaches with 0 win seasons) that he and the recently fired HC would both be on my staff and that the recently fired HC would be my DC.

You might imagine how that worked out. They scrutinized and scoffed at every move I made. Accused me of playing mind games with the players when at halftime of a game where the team was getting the ever-living sh--- beat out of them, 35-0, I told the kids we were going to play the second half as a brand new game and see who wins the second half. The AD wanted to fire me over this. The only problem was---the kids won the second half 14-13 and were jubilant on the bus. The next game they lost to Roxbury Latin, the league champions 42-38, and two weeks later they win their first game in three years.

The huge mistake I made in retrospect was not demanding to be the AD. Had I done that, I could have hired my own staff and would never have had to work with immediate detractors.

Bertrand Berry is 100% correct. James Bettcher either gets the HC job or he should move on.

The wild card here, imo, is Brian Flores. if he can present a plan for the QBOF which includes a highly competent OC, he's my guy. The fact that he has excelled in every facet of such a diverse role with the Patriots---scouting, offense, defense and STs---plus his ability to game plan, his excellent communication and organizational skills---he's the kind of leader who can make the Cardinals a force to be reckoned with for years.

What may work very well in Flores' favor is that there are some very good, experienced OCs on the market right now: Mike Mularkey, Darrell Bevell, Mike Shula, Jim Bob Cooter, Rick Dennison, Todd Downing, Rob Chudzinski. Or maybe Flores has an outstanding college coach in mind or an up and coming sleeper candidate.

I am also very interested in the prospects of Kris Richard as DC if he is recommended by one of the candidates. Per some reports it appears that Chuck Pagano might be wanting to take a little time off before he re-emerges as a DC. Steve Spagnuolo is a strong DC candidate, but some of his players on the Giants this year really dogged it.

Thus, to me, it's between DeFilippo and Flores. Two young coaches with tremendous upside, energy, communication skills and enthusiasm.

I think Keith Armstrong and Steve Wilks are intriguing in their own ways. If one of them comes up with a package and a plan that wows Bidwill, then perhaps one of them will emerge.

But, in DeFilippo the Cardinals would be getting a QB guru and a lightning bolt of energy. In Flores, the Cardinals would be getting a meticulous game planner and stellar communicator. Surround either one of them with some competent coordinators and it is game on.
 
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overseascardfan

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What I worry about with JDF is if he brings in a OC that has been a HC before to me would get dicey in scenarios where a veteran OC may second guess a HC with no previous coordinator experience unless JDF is not a stubborn man and completely trusts his OC to make a key decision. Who would be a good OC for JDF? You would want an experienced guy to help develop him into a good HC IMO. So Mularkey? Bevell? Any word on coordinators he could be attached to?

Has ARZ moved on from Wilks? I figure it has to be Wilks or De Filippo.
 

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Mitch: Different Munchak Theory:

MB and SK like the way the "Cardinal Culture" had evolved under Arians and may have at least signalled to Munchak that "This is the way we do things around here" (implying "& we plan on continuing it this way").

Munchak (who is said to march to his own drummer) may have decidd decided he wanted more latitude and opted out (because adherance to the "Cardinal Way" limited his freedom to coach the way he wanted to coach).

Was Munchak too much the "my way or highway" loose cannon? Cards too limiting? You call it.

Just another take on the way it might have gone down.
 
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Mitch

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What I worry about with JDF is if he brings in a OC that has been a HC before to me would get dicey in scenarios where a veteran OC may second guess a HC with no previous coordinator experience unless JDF is not a stubborn man and completely trusts his OC to make a key decision. Who would be a good OC for JDF? You would want an experienced guy to help develop him into a good HC IMO. So Mularkey? Bevell? Any word on coordinators he could be attached to?

Has ARZ moved on from Wilks? I figure it has to be Wilks or De Filippo.

First of all, JDF has been an OC for one year in Cleveland and under the circumstance he did pretty well, but his HC got fired after one year.

JDF credits long-time OC and QB coach Greg Knapp (SF, OAK, ATL, DEN) for a lot of his growth and knowledge as a coach. Knapp is interviewing for the Falcons' QB coach job---but, seeing as JDF and Knapp are so close, i think Knapp would be a great choice and I think they would share in the play calling duties, with JDF calling most of the plays. Both are QB gurus. That a huge plus.

Wilks is coming in for a 2nd interview. He will have to have a superb OC candidate in tow. if so, Wilks is a superb defensive coach and by all accounts a strong leader. What concerns me about Wilks is that in NY with his main proponent by his side, GM Dave Gettleman, Wilks did not impress the Giants' FO enough to make their final 3. I wonder what happened. It could be that Wilks' plan for the offensive side of the ball was not to their liking.
 

overseascardfan

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First of all, JDF has been an OC for one year in Cleveland and under the circumstance he did pretty well, but his HC got fired after one year.

JDF credits long-time OC and QB coach Greg Knapp (SF, OAK, ATL, DEN) for a lot of his growth and knowledge as a coach. Knapp is interviewing for the Falcons' QB coach job---but, seeing as JDF and Knapp are so close, i think Knapp would be a great choice and I think they would share in the play calling duties, with JDF calling most of the plays. Both are QB gurus. That a huge plus.

Wilks is coming in for a 2nd interview. He will have to have a superb OC candidate in tow. if so, Wilks is a superb defensive coach and by all accounts a strong leader. What concerns me about Wilks is that in NY with his main proponent by his side, GM Dave Gettleman, Wilks did not impress the Giants' FO enough to make their final 3. I wonder what happened. It could be that Wilks' plan for the offensive side of the ball was not to their liking.
Oh forgot about CLE, I stand corrected but my point stands in that if he goes with a former HC at OC will there be drama in crucial situations?
 

JeffGollin

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First of all, JDF has been an OC for one year in Cleveland and under the circumstance he did pretty well, but his HC got fired after one year.

JDF credits long-time OC and QB coach Greg Knapp (SF, OAK, ATL, DEN) for a lot of his growth and knowledge as a coach. Knapp is interviewing for the Falcons' QB coach job---but, seeing as JDF and Knapp are so close, i think Knapp would be a great choice and I think they would share in the play calling duties, with JDF calling most of the plays. Both are QB gurus. That a huge plus.

Wilks is coming in for a 2nd interview. He will have to have a superb OC candidate in tow. if so, Wilks is a superb defensive coach and by all accounts a strong leader. What concerns me about Wilks is that in NY with his main proponent by his side, GM Dave Gettleman, Wilks did not impress the Giants' FO enough to make their final 3. I wonder what happened. It could be that Wilks' plan for the offensive side of the ball was not to their liking.
Mitch - Just speculating, but could Giant ownership feel that Gettleman and Wilks are too close and that they'd prefer a bit more ""distance" between GM and HC?
 

RON_IN_OC

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Mitch: Different Munchak Theory:

MB and SK like the way the "Cardinal Culture" had evolved under Arians and may have at least signalled to Munchak that "This is the way we do things around here" (implying "& we plan on continuing it this way").

Munchak (who is said to march to his own drummer) may have decidd decided he wanted more latitude and opted out (because adherance to the "Cardinal Way" limited his freedom to coach the way he wanted to coach).

Was Munchak too much the "my way or highway" loose cannon? Cards too limiting? You call it.

Just another take on the way it might have gone down.
The dude couldn't even March to the Titan way... you'd think he'd learn a little bit of a lesson.

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Mitch

Mitch

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Mitch: Different Munchak Theory:

MB and SK like the way the "Cardinal Culture" had evolved under Arians and may have at least signalled to Munchak that "This is the way we do things around here" (implying "& we plan on continuing it this way").

Munchak (who is said to march to his own drummer) may have decidd decided he wanted more latitude and opted out (because adherance to the "Cardinal Way" limited his freedom to coach the way he wanted to coach).

Was Munchak too much the "my way or highway" loose cannon? Cards too limiting? You call it.

Just another take on the way it might have gone down.

Jeff, good theory indeed. I am sure there is much more to this story than Munchak just deciding he just wants to stay in Pittsburgh. There likely was a phone call and whatever happened during that phone call tilted the scales. I am guessing that MB might have said to him that if he comes to Arizona for the 2nd interview they will offer him the job on the condition that he retain James Bettcher as DC.

I just think it odd that Munchak offered no recognition or thanks to the Cardinals for their interest in him.

It's kind of like if you turn down a wedding invitation---do you just say you can't make it for family reasons and then not offer the bride a groom a thanks for the invitation?
 

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Given that Faneca signed a lucrative FA contract with the Jets when he left Pitt and simply finished his career in AZ, I can't see why his time with the Cards, "really stuck in their craws."
 
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Mitch

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Mitch - Just speculating, but could Giant ownership feel that Gettleman and Wilks are too close and that they'd prefer a bit more ""distance" between GM and HC?

Jeff, I think they would want the GM and HC to be joined at the hip. But, the interview did not go as well as expected.

Plus, like the Cardinals, the Giants are on the verge of acquiring their QBOF, and thus they need the most comfortable plan they can find to develop that QB. Whatever Wilks offered as an offensive plan in all likelihood must not have made the FO comfortable.
 
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Mitch

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Given that Faneca signed a lucrative FA contract with the Jets when he left Pitt and simply finished his career in AZ, I can't see why his time with the Cards, "really stuck in their craws."

Then you probably don't understand Steelers' fans. They wanted Faneca back in the worst way.
 

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Oh Please. BA knew cardinals was his last chance to be a HC in 2013. Yet he insisted on bringing Bowles. Cardinals relented. You all think Cardinals will force Bettcher on Munchak?

I think Munchak got a raise to be highest paid OL guy in the league. The difference was not worth it so he decided to stay with Steelers.
 
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Mitch

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Oh Please. BA knew cardinals was his last chance to be a HC in 2013. Yet he insisted on bringing Bowles. Cardinals relented. You all think Cardinals will force Bettcher on Munchak?

I think Munchak got a raise to be highest paid OL guy in the league. The difference was not worth it so he decided to stay with Steelers.

I think it's quite possible the Cardinals are trying to keep Bettcher on as DC. Everyone in the AZ media appears to be advocating for it, except Bertrand Berry. Could there be some pressure to try to keep BA happy?

Munchak is making $2M as OL next year. He could triple that as a HC.
 

Arz101

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I think it's quite possible the Cardinals are trying to keep Bettcher on as DC. Everyone in the AZ media appears to be advocating for it, except Bertrand Berry. Could there be some pressure to try to keep BA happy?

Munchak is making $2M as OL next year. He could triple that as a HC.

Cardinals would not do it Mitch. It is just conviction on my part though. MB and SK both know to hire good candidates they cannot have such pre-conditions. Cards are not the Browns (not yet)
 

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I think it's quite possible the Cardinals are trying to keep Bettcher on as DC. Everyone in the AZ media appears to be advocating for it, except Bertrand Berry. Could there be some pressure to try to keep BA happy?

Munchak is making $2M as OL next year. He could triple that as a HC.


Not in AZ. Arians wasn't even hired at that rate...Wasn't given his $6/million extention, until his 3rd year. No way Munchak gets hired at that rate, out of the gate, in AZ.
 

cardpa

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The dude couldn't even March to the Titan way... you'd think he'd learn a little bit of a lesson.

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Having been a HC in both middle school and high school, if an AD told me I had to coach a certain way, I would tell him I have no interest whatsoever in the job. As a HC you have to have a firm belief in what you do and have the freedom to coach as you see fit. You want your success or failure to be up to you, not someone else handcuffing you. If you have an owner and a GM telling you that you have to do things a certain way then I would not blame anyone for telling them I no longer have any interest in the position.
 

RON_IN_OC

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Having been a HC in both middle school and high school, if an AD told me I had to coach a certain way, I would tell him I have no interest whatsoever in the job. As a HC you have to have a firm belief in what you do and have the freedom to coach as you see fit. You want your success or failure to be up to you, not someone else handcuffing you. If you have an owner and a GM telling you that you have to do things a certain way then I would not blame anyone for telling them I no longer have any interest in the position.

Do you think someone like Tomlin does things the "Steeler Way"? I sure do...I think that's why he was hired over Whiz and Grimm. Tomlin could be trusted to do as directed, when called for...like firing/retiring Arians, firing Haley, etc.
 

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With this coaching search turning off Cardinals fans, I anticipate them throwing the bank at Cousins or trading up to 7th or 8th spot to get someone like Baker Mayfield to rekindle interest in the team. Exciting teams ahead. This forum is going to rock this year.
 

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My guess at this point is that the Cards brass is keeping hush on their true intentions. They have a name in mind that even the media hasn’t reported. We’ll hear that name near the end of the coaching search and think it’s news and we’ll be so excited for that coach.... I hope that’s the scenario at least.
 

RON_IN_OC

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My guess at this point is that the Cards brass is keeping hush on their true intentions. They have a name in mind that even the media hasn’t reported. We’ll hear that name near the end of the coaching search and think it’s news and we’ll be so excited for that coach.... I hope that’s the scenario at least.

I still think we may here about some surprise interview, maybe of a college coach, similar to what the Colts did this year.
 

Arz101

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My guess at this point is that the Cards brass is keeping hush on their true intentions. They have a name in mind that even the media hasn’t reported. We’ll hear that name near the end of the coaching search and think it’s news and we’ll be so excited for that coach.... I hope that’s the scenario at least.

Even if they keep quiet, the agent of the candidate will get the info out for leverage.

It takes two to tango and rarely happens in this business. So the probability of a hire we didn't hear are very very low.
 

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Jeff, I think they would want the GM and HC to be joined at the hip. But, the interview did not go as well as expected.

Plus, like the Cardinals, the Giants are on the verge of acquiring their QBOF, and thus they need the most comfortable plan they can find to develop that QB. Whatever Wilks offered as an offensive plan in all likelihood must not have made the FO comfortable.

IMNSHO the 3-13 Giants made a huge error by not test driving Davis Webb one snap this season. Were they afraid of burning his redshirt ?
 

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