Bills 19 Cardinals 16 OT Post Game Thoughts

Mitch

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Well---it's been an uncanny streak of winning these types of games for the Cardinals---and this time, they had to taste what New England felt when Steven Gostkowski misses the game winner after kicking a near 60 yarder minutes earlier.

What was most perplexing about the performance was how listless the Cardinals' offense was to start this game---particularly after 10 days to "clean things up" and atone for the poor performance on TNF.

I had said previously in my post last week that if we didn't see a Cardinal TE or slot WR chip DE Mario Williams square in the ribs from the side on the first passing play, that we were going to see the same old same old, and that we did, only even more conservatively and predictably than 10 days previous.

The thing is---the way Daryl Washington forced a fumble on the Bills' first play and the way the Bills have been reeling, a rejuvenated and determined Cardinal offense could have set the tempo for the entire game---except that what we got is the perfunctory dive left for -1 yards on first down, an errant throw over the middle to a wide open Jeff King on 2nd and 11 and you guessed it a sack on 3rd and 11.

Many teams have a rule of thumb that off of a momentum seizing turnover like the one the Cardinals got right off the bat, you take a shot for the endzone---in other words you let the other team know you are being super aggressive.

After watching the Rams' tape and seeing the painfully redundant 2nd and 11-14s after -1 to -4 yards 1st down run failures---to think that the coaches elected instead to run the same running plays on first down versus their run stuffers makes one wonder if the coaches really watch the tapes or have a strong enough sense of how to pull this offense out of its duldrums.

After watching the QB get hammered for two straight weeks---one might think the coaches would be grateful the QB wasn't in a body cast and on the IR by now---and that they would do everything in their power to protect better for him. Alas, no. No changes. No concerted, sustained efforts to maximize the QBs protection. And when finally there were some attempts to chip, by then their whole defense is fired up beyond their wildest dreams.

The next sack in the game was throughly avoidable if the QB has been properly coached or he himself understands the gravity of the situation. Even where the pocket collapsed, Kolb could have made a move to dive the ball forward over the line

The other thing is---it seems like any time there's a break in routine for the Cardinals under CKW---where the team gets extra days off---the team comes back flat and even listless at times. After the loss in STL, this pattern should have been reversed and it wasn't.

It took a very generous spot for the Cardinals to sustain their one TD drive---and it took a faked punt to create another scoring chance---but by and large, the offense in the first half was about as bad as it has been all year---at home no less and after a 10 day layoff.

Let's face it---this offense just aint no fun.

The defense is fun and fun to watch---so are the STs---but this offense makes even the least squeamish cringe. It's so poorly designed and it is so horribly redundant.

Look at it this way---the Cardinals took TWO deep shots down field all game long---one on the excellent throw and catch fade route to rookie Michael Floyd and the other on the deep seam to Roberts which Roberts very well might have caught---he got both hands on it.

If an offense doesn't threaten the defense deep and if the offense allows easy pressure (as in a 2.84 second flash time for the QB to get rid of the ball)---what can the defense do? They can start to sneak up into the intermediate zones to try to jump routes and force interceptions---which is exactly what the Bills' coaches and FS Jairus Byrd (Game MVP, imo) in key situations did twice---as he was able to see the Cardinals QBs locking in on the TE over the middle---which QBs HAVE to do if they have 2.84 seconds to work with)---just as Skelton did when he threw the perfect strike to Fitz on 4th and long that led to Feely's 61 yarder. You can't throw a strike like that without seeing the spot and aiming for it. The good news was that Fitz was moving away from the inside safety help.

That one wrinkle the Bills coaches put in---to have Byrd come up and hawk the intermediate middle on 3rds and longs---won the Bills the football game. That and a brutally untimely drop by Andre Roberts---and a 5 play meltdown defensive series (with the team now up 13-9) perfectly akin to the one we saw the Rams open up with 10 days ago.

Yes---the Cardinals needed to create more time to throw---and they tried to sneak a flea flicker in there, to no avail---but the time to throw was on first downs, not 3rd and 11s---so that they don't get into 3rds and 11s.

The only real difference in the Cardinals' approach to offense in this game was that kevin Kolb decided, you know what, if I see an opening I am going to run for it---and Kolb was superb at it! We really had something there until alas the botched audible draw play which ended both Kolb's and William Powell's night.

Now---time for what was good---William Powell was good and made running the ball fun and productive again. Powell is nifty and sneaky strong---love the way he lunges the ball forward too when he finishes his runs.

And---CKW played the last three minutes of regulation about as perfectly as he ever has---I mean perfectly---even being gutsy enough to try the 61 yarder---but what helped his cause there was having saved all three of his timeouts to that point.

Then ironically it was the Cardinals' turn visa the football gods to have a relatively easy game winning field goal go awry---

What I loved about Chan Gailey was that when they won the coin toss he took the ball---even when his offense had not been looking very good of late. The PI call on Acho looked questionable---but then again why in that situation is Acho covering a fade route downfield?

The key was that the Bills were able to turn the field position around in their favor---and we saw once again a run on first down for no gain and then another crucial dropped pass (LSH screen right---with blocking ahead and lots of green) on second and long, and then the forced interception over the middle on 3rd and long.

What concerned me about the defense was that our defensive line was going up against a banged up Bills' makeshift unit and aside from O'Brien Schofield, the defensive line was getting handled---there were occasions when Fitzpatrick started scrambling around the pocket when he didn't have to---and neither Dockett nor Campbell were still anywhere close---when Dockett and Campbell are quiet this defense isn't nearly as good.

What concerns me too and I know I keep saying this---is the play of the safeties---Adrian Wilson doesn't tackle anyone---and hasn't now for three years---he hits people---and if they don't drop on their butts, they carom off and continue running for positive yards, like twice in the game where Horton had Wilson shooting the A gap right into ball carriers and Wilson made no effort to tackle (meaning hit and wrap up). he hit once and Jackson just stood Wilson up and continued up the hole.

As for Rhodes---he was what he normally is in open space---hesitant and passive---see the TD run in the first half---Rhodes is right there to stop the run in its tracks, instead he stops in no man's land and allows himself to get juked and then gave the Bills o-lineman enough time to come knock him 5 yards backwards on his arse.

Safeties have to be sudden and they have to wrap up---that's why they are called safeties, because often if they don't make the play, the play is going to be a a TD or a long gain.

Bonehead call of the day? With the lead and momentum late in the 4th quarter in Cardinal territory Chan Gailey calling a Brad Smith flea flicker.

Best call of the day? Chan Gailey electing not to ice Feely. it looked like the Cardinals rushed the kick a little---and the timing looked a little out of sync as well. And then electing to take the ball first in OT.

The teams that are serious about winning and lose a key player at a key spot as the Cardinals did at LT, would be orchestrating a trade or even two---

The thing is---you either have to change the tackles if you want to leave them iso-ed on the DEs or you have to change the protection schemes.

The Cardinals are doing neither and with it their fast start is now turning into a nightmare.

One thing for sure---this offense, how it is coached and designed and built is a QB's nightmare.

The Ryan Lindley/Richard Bartel watch? By mid-season?
 
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Bodha

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Strangely, Im not as mad as I thought Id be. Probably because we shouldnt even have made that 61 yard FG. Id accepted defeat already, so to come back and lose, not as bad.



Nothing I say will be news to anyone.

Oline sucks.

Missed opportunities

Early Doucet is worthless

LSH is worthless

Bad, bad play calling. Powell played very well all game, and yet they still keep LSH in at the end. I credit that as the single biggest reason why we lost. Use of LSH instead of Powell at the end.

Is Reagan Maui'a still on the team? I havent checked yet. His penalty wasnt so bad as I was pissed at the chain effect it had. We were moving the ball so well. He gets penalized, and we absolutely implode. That couldve been a scoring drive.


Russ needs to be fired. IDC if it has no effect on the Oline performance, good or bad. I just need this as a sacrifice to my anger.


D got gashed. CJ Spiller and Fred Jackson just abused them in the end. What happened to our run D? Also, Adub and KR need to go back to tackle camp. These 2 are highly accountable for the loss yesterday.
 

Brian in Mesa

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Bonehead call of the day? With the lead and momentum late in the 4th quarter in Cardinal territory Chan Gailey calling a Brad Smith flea flicker.

To me the bonehead play of the day was wasting the last :20 or so of regulation by running the clock down and spiking it to set up a field goal. Seriously, we just made the huge pass to Fitz...take a shot. Go for the jugular. You might get a TD to ice the game or a PI call to move even closer. I hate it when teams are content to "play it safe" and attempt a FG and simply go to OT if the kick is missed.

That or giving up a safety early in the game. No excuse for that. You know the line is struggling - design a play to get the ball out quickly.
 

82CardsGrad

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To me the bonehead play of the day was wasting the last :20 or so of regulation by running the clock down and spiking it to set up a field goal. Seriously, we just made the huge pass to Fitz...take a shot. Go for the jugular. You might get a TD to ice the game or a PI call to move even closer. I hate it when teams are content to "play it safe" and attempt a FG and simply go to OT if the kick is missed.

That or giving up a safety early in the game. No excuse for that. You know the line is struggling - design a play to get the ball out quickly.

Ditto... That was pure idiocy...

Also, my friends and I were focusing in on Massie and Batiste most of the game, trying to see what the hell is actually happening there. We were divided on the issues... however, to me, it just appears that they both are getting our muscled! Plenty of times it looked as if they had good position, yet, the defender simply bull-rushed, or, used superior strength... Yea, there were times when they got beat by speed or a quick move... But, sure seemed to me that the vast majority of times that they got beat were when the defender showed far more strength...
 

Bodha

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To me the bonehead play of the day was wasting the last :20 or so of regulation by running the clock down and spiking it to set up a field goal. Seriously, we just made the huge pass to Fitz...take a shot. Go for the jugular. You might get a TD to ice the game or a PI call to move even closer. I hate it when teams are content to "play it safe" and attempt a FG and simply go to OT if the kick is missed.

Cmon man, thats hindsight. Had he made it you wouldnt be saying we shouldve went for a TD instead. Wins a win. FG was safe (VERY safe in fact).

Given this teams history, did you really want them passing in a critical sitution like that?

Especially considering we were well within FG range. (without the tipped kick, it wouldve made it and won)

Playing safe after a game of mistakes is the smart thing to do. Remember the end of the Pats game? All we had to do was run out the clock? Just take a knee and punt. Instead, we go for the juggular, do a frggin lateral run play, and it gets fumbled.

I hear you. Most of the time I agree, go for the win. but this was cut and dry. zero time on the clock. A block was literally the only thing that could possibly make us lose (and it did happen)
 

Russ Smith

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To me the bonehead play of the day was wasting the last :20 or so of regulation by running the clock down and spiking it to set up a field goal. Seriously, we just made the huge pass to Fitz...take a shot. Go for the jugular. You might get a TD to ice the game or a PI call to move even closer. I hate it when teams are content to "play it safe" and attempt a FG and simply go to OT if the kick is missed.

That or giving up a safety early in the game. No excuse for that. You know the line is struggling - design a play to get the ball out quickly.

To be honest I thought that for a second and then i remembered Skelton hadn't played much and had basically completed 2 passes, the 4th down one to Fitz that was a great throw but also in a VERY tight situation where Fitz' hands just snatched it. And the one to Fitz that was a blown coverage he was WIDE open. Beyond that Skelton was pretty inaccurate yesterday. My guess is Whiz was afraid he'd throw a pick if he took a chance.

Which he promptly did in the OT.

It's hard for me to complain about play calling there is no good playcalling for this OL and QB situation. When the ball does get there, guys drop it. Roberts had 2 huge ones.

The two positives I had was Powell, and I don't think I saw Kolb have to move Floyd once. I think Skelton did once IIRC but he may finally be catching on to the plays.
 

Russ Smith

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Ditto... That was pure idiocy...

Also, my friends and I were focusing in on Massie and Batiste most of the game, trying to see what the hell is actually happening there. We were divided on the issues... however, to me, it just appears that they both are getting our muscled! Plenty of times it looked as if they had good position, yet, the defender simply bull-rushed, or, used superior strength... Yea, there were times when they got beat by speed or a quick move... But, sure seemed to me that the vast majority of times that they got beat were when the defender showed far more strength...

Massie's problem was there in the preseason then went away and is now back, he plays too high so he gets leveraged out. You're saying it's muscle I think it's really the DE gets UNDER him and then it's just leverage. the same way Schofield tossed his man aside after getting under him. give me a long enough lever I can move the earth.

I am going to keep saying it I'm convinced the replacement refs masked how bad Batiste was, he's not getting called a ton for holding as I thought he would, but then he's not holding as much as he was before the real refs came back. I'm convinced Grimm basically told the guys hold until they call it and Batiste did, repeatedly. Now he can't he's being exposed, we see now why everyone cut him.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

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To me the bonehead play of the day was wasting the last :20 or so of regulation by running the clock down and spiking it to set up a field goal. Seriously, we just made the huge pass to Fitz...take a shot. Go for the jugular. You might get a TD to ice the game or a PI call to move even closer. I hate it when teams are content to "play it safe" and attempt a FG and simply go to OT if the kick is missed.

That or giving up a safety early in the game. No excuse for that. You know the line is struggling - design a play to get the ball out quickly.
Honestly I thought they should have had the QB get the ball to middle of the hash marks prior to the FG. You want to make the FG attempt as easy as possible and forcing the kicker to have to kick from the right hash mark instead of the center.
 

82CardsGrad

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Massie's problem was there in the preseason then went away and is now back, he plays too high so he gets leveraged out. You're saying it's muscle I think it's really the DE gets UNDER him and then it's just leverage. the same way Schofield tossed his man aside after getting under him. give me a long enough lever I can move the earth.

Very good point Russ...
 

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Is Reagan Maui'a still on the team? I havent checked yet. His penalty wasnt so bad as I was pissed at the chain effect it had. We were moving the ball so well. He gets penalized, and we absolutely implode. That couldve been a scoring drive.

How about Roberts getting called for holding on the short pass to Doucet from our 12 which put the team back to the 6. Talk about starting a bad chain of events.
 
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Mitch

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Russ makes the perfect point about Massie playing too high. That and playing too much on his heels to where he can get knocked backward by a bull rush.

As for Batiste---he shows the requisite strength to neutralize rushers, but his fan technique is the problem---his drop step is too deep and thus it gives the DE immediate leverage on the edge, which creates too shallow a route to the QB.

What he has to do is slide step to stay square, then make the DE commit to a side and ride him either way...but to just give the DE the edge on a deep drop step is killing him and the QB.
 
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Mitch

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Use of personnel:

We all saw that William Powell is by far the superior choice at RB---Hyphen is hurt like he almost always is---he's just not built for anything other than a spot, cameo offensive role.

CKW in his presser today said that slow starts are the problem---but, if you don't have your best personnel in there and your play calling is to players who can't deliver, whose to blame?

Rob Housler---with a talent like his, why are we throwing to Jeff King more?

Michael Floyd---one or two targets a game?

Doucet---the invisible man.

Rich Ohrnsberger---and Snakester, as our o-line guru will attest, is a far better option at RG now than Snyder who is playing hurt.

Daryn Colledge---with the need at tackle so great---he needs to be used there asap---flip flop Colledge and Batiste (who is a solid guard). Colledge has experience there. We need experience and a heckuva lot more resistance.

Alfonso Smith---better option at RB especially in pass pro than Hyphen.



Do something.
 

MadCardDisease

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The teams that are serious about winning and lose a key player at a key spot as the Cardinals did at LT, would be orchestrating a trade or even two---

How many trades have gone down in the NFL so far this season after a team has lost a key player? Just curious
 

Russ Smith

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How many trades have gone down in the NFL so far this season after a team has lost a key player? Just curious

And of those how many were for a LT?

the problem was bad decisions made in the offeason coupled with injuries.

As for moving Colledge even he said he didn't want to play tackle he said they were practicing him some at Tackle solely as a disaster scenario.

We're screwed for this year at the tackles unless Levi somehow heals faster than expected we make the playoffs and he's somehow able to play. He's not a great player at all but the improvement over Batiste would be enormous then we only have to worry about helping one side consistently not both.
 
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Mitch

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How many trades have gone down in the NFL so far this season after a team has lost a key player? Just curious

While it's not this season---when the Seahawks needed a RB they traded for Marshawn Lynch a couple of games into the season---and that move was the key move in winning them the NFC West two years ago. He remains in many respects their bellweather player on offense to this day.
 

Chopper0080

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Use of personnel:

We all saw that William Powell is by far the superior choice at RB---Hyphen is hurt like he almost always is---he's just not built for anything other than a spot, cameo offensive role.

CKW in his presser today said that slow starts are the problem---but, if you don't have your best personnel in there and your play calling is to players who can't deliver, whose to blame?

Rob Housler---with a talent like his, why are we throwing to Jeff King more?

Michael Floyd---one or two targets a game?

Doucet---the invisible man.

Rich Ohrnsberger---and Snakester, as our o-line guru will attest, is a far better option at RG now than Snyder who is playing hurt.

Daryn Colledge---with the need at tackle so great---he needs to be used there asap---flip flop Colledge and Batiste (who is a solid guard). Colledge has experience there. We need experience and a heckuva lot more resistance.

Alfonso Smith---better option at RB especially in pass pro than Hyphen.



Do something.

Where do you get this idea from? I have never seen Batiste be solid anything on an offensive line.

I have thought about the move of Colledge to LT, but I think you just create even more holes on the offensive line. Colledge will struggle with speed just like Batiste does and you will get even worse play inside at LG.

RG is awful.
 

Chopper0080

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While it's not this season---when the Seahawks needed a RB they traded for Marshawn Lynch a couple of games into the season---and that move was the key move in winning them the NFC West two years ago. He remains in many respects their bellweather player on offense to this day.

A RB in a RB by committee league. No one is unloading a LT during a season.
 

Russ Smith

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While it's not this season---when the Seahawks needed a RB they traded for Marshawn Lynch a couple of games into the season---and that move was the key move in winning them the NFC West two years ago. He remains in many respects their bellweather player on offense to this day.

That was different though. Buffalo had Jackson come on (he was outplaying Lynch) and they drafted Spiller because Lynch got in trouble again and they were afraid to rely on him. So Buffalo had an extra RB and moved him.

Teams don't have extra Tackles, it just doesn't happen.

Note I agree with try something I just think we should have tried it in the offseason, in the draft either at T or guard early in the draft when we wouldn't be getting a project like Massie or Kelemete or Potter.
 

MadCardDisease

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While it's not this season---when the Seahawks needed a RB they traded for Marshawn Lynch a couple of games into the season---and that move was the key move in winning them the NFC West two years ago. He remains in many respects their bellweather player on offense to this day.

Right, and everyone knew that Buffalo was looking to dump Lynch who was a malcontent in Buffalo.

You see it takes two to make a trade. How many teams are willing to part with a decent lineman let alone a tackle when they are so hard to come by in the first place? I agree with Russ, this problem started way before the season began. It was the Cardinals failure to address the OL over the past couple of years that is the problem. It's too late to fix it now.
 

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I love your posts Mitch... but, after a horrific loss like yesterday's, all of the ideas mean squat. The reality is that there is simply no excuse at all that is adequate enough to account for losing, at home, to the lowly Bills. None.

From ownership down thru the coaches and to the players, they need to be held accountable. All of them. How we can only score 16 points against that pathetic defense is almost unimaginable.

All teams are playing without starters missing due to injury. Every team has gaps and less than stellar talent at certain positions. If we were up against the 9ers, Seahawks, Giants or some other quality defense, I'd be better at understanding how our offense can be so pathetic. But not against the Bills.

At this stage, I would put the over/under at 5. 5 quarters before we see Lindley. Which, at this stage, I'll admit I would not at all mind seeing...I'm going with the under...

And, if LSH starts at RB next week, any ounce of respect left for Whiz will be gone. It has to be WiPo... period!
 
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Mitch

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That was different though. Buffalo had Jackson come on (he was outplaying Lynch) and they drafted Spiller because Lynch got in trouble again and they were afraid to rely on him. So Buffalo had an extra RB and moved him.

Teams don't have extra Tackles, it just doesn't happen.

Note I agree with try something I just think we should have tried it in the offseason, in the draft either at T or guard early in the draft when we wouldn't be getting a project like Massie or Kelemete or Potter.

I will give you a team that has 3 LTs on its roster---the Detroit Lions---who need CBs---how about Greg Toler for Jeff Backus? Reilly Reiff takes over as their starting LT.

How about Chris Williams of the Bears? Rumor has it the Bears would willing to listen to trade offers there.
 
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Mitch

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Where do you get this idea from? I have never seen Batiste be solid anything on an offensive line.

I have thought about the move of Colledge to LT, but I think you just create even more holes on the offensive line. Colledge will struggle with speed just like Batiste does and you will get even worse play inside at LG.

RG is awful.

I get that from watching him play LG for us last year in real games. He played well when Colledge was out. Plus---maybe Kelemete is better by now. At least Colledge has experience at LT---4 years at Boise and a number of years in the NFL.

We cannot go with the status quo---we just can't. We have to do something. We're talking Jared Allen this week and Aldon Smith the next---and a HC and OC who don't want to chip.
 

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How many trades have gone down in the NFL so far this season after a team has lost a key player? Just curious

The Ravens just lost Ladarius Webb and Ray Lewis for the season and will probabaly be without Ngata for several weeks. Lets see how many trades they make to replace those guys.
 
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