hcsilla

Trade1


PHO trade
Tom Gugliotta
2005 1st rounder top3 protected (DEN get the pick only if Camby plays at least 110 games in his next two seasons)

PHO get
Marcus Camby

TRADE ACCEPTED


WHY IT COULD WORK FOR DEN?
They get a bigger but shorter contract and a 1st rounder for Camby.They will still have enough cap space to sign Arenas and Maggette AND they would be able to sign a max. FA again in 2004 when Gugliotta's huge contract will expire.If the get Milicic then Camby would only block the improvement of their young bigmen.Although Gugliotta can no longer run and jump he still knows how to play basketball and DEN's young core could learn one thing or two from him.
LINE-UP
PG-Arenas/Harrington
SG-Maggette/Yarborough/White
SF-Tskitisvili/White
PF-(Milicic)/Gugliotta
C -Hilario/Andersen


WHY IT COULD WORK FOR PHO?
They get a 4 mil. cap relief this year what is very servicable because they will be over the luxury tax limit because of Marion's max. extension.Camby's health is a big gamble but if he could play 60 games per year then with Stoudemire they would be a formidable frontcourt even in West.Camby can backup also Stoudemire.
LINE-UP
PG-Marbury/FA or draft pick
SG-Hardaway/Johnson/Jacobsen
SF-Marion/FA or draft pick
PF-Stoudemire/Camby/Outlaw
C -Camby/Tsakalidis/Voskuhl



Trade2


PHO trade

Casey Jacobsen
Dan Langhi (S&T,partially guaranteed min. contract)

PHO get

Rodney White



DEN get a cheaper and younger backup SG who is a nice outside-shooter.


PHO have 3 SG's but they have only Dan Langhi to backup Marion.White as an athletic, good scoring swingman would be a nice,talented benchplayer

Joe Mama

Does Camby's contract expired after this season? I thought it ran through next season. Marcus Camby might be the most fragile player ever to put on an NBA uniform, and he has a questionable attitude to go along with his fragility. I guess is the Suns would rather keep Tom Gugliotta and definitely their first-round draft pick.

As far as your second trade proposal goes I would rather keep Casey Jacobson and Langhi. White has some offensive potential, but from what I've seen and heard of him his defense is nonexistent.

Joe Mama

__________________
"A good way to threaten somebody is to light a stick of dynamite. Then you call the guy and hold the burning fuse up to the phone. 'Hear that?' you say. 'That's dynamite, baby.'" - Jack Handy

Chaplin

First of all, these trades would have to happen after the season, since the deadline is passed. At that point, Googs will have one year remaining (assuming he takes his option, which he probably will). If Camby's contract also expires in another year, is the difference between Camby and Googs worth a 1st round top 3 protected pick? AND, assuming your 110 games in 2 years thing, he'd have to be playing another 2 years with us. I'd rather get rid of the money sooner and pick up someone other than Camby AND Googs who won't be injured all year.

hcsilla

Of course.

I think if Camby is healthy then the difference between Googs and Camby is worth a top3 protected 1st rounder.
Especially that with the healthy Camby Suns is definitely a play-off team.
If Camby wouldn't be healthy then DEN wouldn't get the pick because of the protection.

Plus Camby's salary in 2003/2004 is less by 4.5 mil. than Gugliotta's so Suns would save about 9 mil. because of the luxury tax.

Not another 2 years.Camby's contract is only one year longer than Googs'.
If Camby wouldn't play more than 110 games in 2003/2004 and in 2004/2005 seasons then DEN wouldn't get the pick.
But you are right (if you meant that) then the pick has to be a 2005 1st rounder.

I edited the trade.

elindholm

It's a terrible trade for Denver. They get the pick only if Camby is healthy -- but if Camby is healthy, they'd rather have him than the pick anyway.

Imagine if someone cooked up a scenario where the Suns trade Hardaway, but get something in return only if he's healthy. Of course everyone here would laugh themselves silly.

If Denver wants to trade Camby, they can do a lot better than $15 million of dead weight (remember Gugliotta's trade kicker) and a "maybe" pick.

SirStefan32

I am not really sure about those two trades. Camby is a good player, but I don't think he is worth a first rounder and an expiring contract. I'd hold on to Googs. Just let his contract expire.

Besides, I don't know why Denver would do it. As Eric pointed out, stipulation of Camby being healthy is not something Denver would go for.

Joe Mama

If Marcus Camby's contract expires next season would we have to sign to an extension to count those 2 years?

There were some articles out of Denver today talking about Marcus Camby. Apparently they're quite disappointed with his effort and heart. This is nothing new for him of course. I don't think Colangelos would touch him at this point.

Joe Mama

__________________
"A good way to threaten somebody is to light a stick of dynamite. Then you call the guy and hold the burning fuse up to the phone. 'Hear that?' you say. 'That's dynamite, baby.'" - Jack Handy

hcsilla

Camby's contract will expire in 2005.

hcsilla

I'm not that sure.
If you are a completely rebuilding team then you usually rather need an expiring contract and a pick than a good player with longer contract.

OK,Suns should add 2 mil. cash to the deal because of Gugliotta's trade kicker.

elindholm

If you are a completely rebuilding team then you usually rather need an expiring contract and a pick than a good player with longer contract.

The value of "expiring contracts" isn't that the players disappear, it's that the team can stop spending money on them. Gugliotta makes almost as much next season as Camby makes in the next two seasons combined. Throw in the pick, and Denver is on the hook for more salary than they would be without the trade.

Camby is not preventing the Nuggets from adding talent. They have plenty of money to work with.

You're saying that they'd rather have Gugliotta for one year (plus the maybe pick) than Camby for two, for the same money. That is just absurd. Phoenix will be a playoff team in 2004-05 so their pick won't be worth much anyway.

Joe Mama

If Marcus Camby is going to have another couple seasons like this one Denver probably would rather have Tom Gugliotta for one year. His contract comes off the books sooner. The value of expiring contracts is not just that they save the team money overall. More importantly it frees up room under the salary cap to lure free agents.

Joe Mama

__________________
"A good way to threaten somebody is to light a stick of dynamite. Then you call the guy and hold the burning fuse up to the phone. 'Hear that?' you say. 'That's dynamite, baby.'" - Jack Handy

hcsilla

Exactly.

DEN would save about total 4 mil. with this trade.

They would lose 4.5 mil. cap space this year but they would win 7.8 mil cap room next year after this trade.
Plus the pick IF Camby stays more or less healthy.

elindholm

If Marcus Camby is going to have another couple seasons like this one Denver probably would rather have Tom Gugliotta for one year. His contract comes off the books sooner. The value of expiring contracts is not just that they save the team money overall. More importantly it frees up room under the salary cap to lure free agents.

Joe Mama, I'm going to have to disagree with you in this case. Denver's big opportunity for FAs will be this coming summer. If they get the players they want, they won't have room for another max player in 2004, even if Gugliotta comes off then.

Neither Camby's salary nor the difference between Gugliotta's and his is enough for another max player. They already have two mid-level exceptions (2003 and 2004) if they want to use them. The difference for them will come down to actual dollars, in which case Gugliotta's contract is just as bad as Camby's.

Come to think of it, I don't even know how this trade would work. For Denver to take Gugliotta in exchange for Camby, they'd have to be under the cap. But the whole point of them being under the cap is so that they can sign quality FAs, not acquire stiffs like Gugliotta. So if they make the trade, they can't sign good players -- but once they sign good players, they can no longer make the trade.

Joe Mama

I was just thinking about that same thing Eric. This trade doesn't make any sense. I guess if they decided they wanted to wait another year to the players in free agency and have even more room this trade would help. However they aren't going to wait.

I'm sure the Colangelos do not want Marcus Camby. Denver almost certainly does not want Tom Gugliotta. Sorry hcilla. It's a bad trade.

Joe Mama

__________________
"A good way to threaten somebody is to light a stick of dynamite. Then you call the guy and hold the burning fuse up to the phone. 'Hear that?' you say. 'That's dynamite, baby.'" - Jack Handy

SweetD

The trade wouldn't work anyways Googs Contract is to big and Denver would have to though in some fillers. I say lets see if Googs even takes the money next year.(Don't worry he will) But we can use his contract to get some younger players or something from teams like the Clips or someone who would rather have a lotto ball than players.