The_Matrix

Off TrueHoop, simply an awesome article
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/b...2998926.column

All of you guys who have watched and listened to Plastic Man for years... any insight?

jbeecham

Shawn might be happy right now, but ask him how he feels after the Heat lose 25 of their last 33 games and miss the playoffs. Then he'll opt out of his contract and no one will offer him more than a 5yr $50 million contract (maybe 5 yr $60 million if he's lucky). Then we'll see if he's happy.

Bufalay

First it was what is wrong with Joe? Now, what is wrong with Shawn? Is there something wrong with the Suns? Why don't these guys want to play with the Suns?

jbeecham

The problem with Joe Johnson & Shawn Marion is all about ego. Joe wanted to be "The Man" and Shawn always complained about a lack of respect & recognition. This Suns team is about trying to win championships and putting your own personal goals & ego aside to do what's best for the team to win. Shawn could do that on the court most of the time, but off the court he couldn't control his own emotions & desires. When guys like Joe & Shawn & Banks can't put ego aside then they start to make waves in the lockerroom. Amare even does a little of this because he wants to be the best, but he never puts down his team or teammates while doing it. Shawn always came off like his teammates were screwing him over (didn't give him opportunities to shoot) or the coach didn't like him (wouldn't run plays for him), etc. Joe just flat out said that he didn't want to be the 3rd or 4th option on the team and cared more about money and being "the man" than winning.

Arizona's Finest

If you think your a #1 guy and you play on a team behind two first team ALL NBA'ers its got to get to your ego and make you bitter. at least the way the NBA is presently consitituted. This shouldn't be a surprise. Joe and Shawn were best friends off the court.

This article should be Exhibit A on why we don't need the matrix here in PHX.

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da_suns_fan

Five bucks if you can find me any type of quote where Joe Johnson stated that he wanted to be "the man".

His biggest reason for leaving was that he wanted a max offer which he wasn't gonna get from the Suns.

Arizona's Finest

Bro I'm Joes biggest fan ever. But the two sentences you wrote in your post are not mutually exclusive.

We should have paid him and traded Shawn IMHO.

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SunsTzu

JJ was quoted at Nash's charity game in Toronto that year(he was supposed to play but just made an appearance) that even though he liked them he didn't want to be looked at as Nash/Amare/Marion's caddy.

Maybe it was just a bunch of hearsay since it never made print and was just talked about on radio/TV though. JJ remains one of my all-time favourite players, wish the Suns had signed him to the 6 year 50mil extention he wanted in '04.

msdundee

Then we'll have to discount the tantrum reported here where Amare came off court in the timeout yelling that LB was a "ballhog" -- comment not directed to Barbosa, but LB was close enough to hear it (along with any fans within earshot as well).
If that was not specifically meant to humiliate a teammate, it would have been better done man-to-man and off court.

hafey

But he is a ballhog

devilalum

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My avatar's bigger than yours.

jbeecham

But Amare wasn't saying that in the media like Shawn had about teammates. Amare went to the coaches and kept it within the team.

msdundee

As I recall, it was reported by a poster here who was at the game and happened to be sitting near the Suns bench, and he said Amare's complaint was directed at other players who didn't seem to know quite how to react. A rant in the middle of a game with a packed arena and a bunch of fans within earshot is not exactly keeping it "within the team."

I thought I'd read pretty much all the sports columnists on most sites. Which teammates did Shawn slam? I must have missed that.

F-Dog

By the stats (and the statheads, Hollinger and the APBR crowd) Marion is one of the league's top ten players, and my understanding is that he bought into this. In a way, Marion's demands were bigger than Joe Johnson's--Joe wanted a bigger role, but Marion has always wanted top billing, ahead of both Amare and Nash.

I guess he's expecting equal billing with Wade in Miami, too.

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"You are not permitted to bet if you're a referee. You're not permitted to bet legally...legal betting will cost you your job."--David Stern

jbeecham

Ok, so a fan sitting right behind the bench overheard Amare complaining to his teammates during a game (a legit complaint in that game BTW because LB was gunning). So What??? Nash yells at his teammates all the time during the games telling them where they need to be and what they're doing wrong. Amare didn't grab the PA Microphone and announce to the whole crowd that LB was ball-hogging.

Shawn constantly complained in post-game interviews that he wasn't being involved in the offense, his teammates didn't get him the ball, he doesn't get plays run for him, etc etc. It's always someone's else's fault when he has a bad offensive game. Maybe he's not singling anyone out by name, but it doesn't matter because he's still making it a public issue rather than just saying "I just had a bad game, I couldn't get myself involved in the offense for some reason, I didn't have the energy tonight, etc". Shawn's constant complaint was that no plays were ever run for him and he got his baskets off of hustle by cutting to the basket, crashing the offensive glass & leaking out for fast breaks.......so then why is it someone else's fault when he doesn't bring the hustle and energy and has a bad game......his teammates don't control his energy level (which is how he scores his baskets according to him).