Nash not so valuable? Article

Treesquid · May 7th, 2007, 07:28 PM

Nash not so valuable?

Valley fan doubts Suns' title shot with 2-time MVP at the helm

Bob Young
The Arizona Republic
May. 7, 2007 12:00 AM
He is a back-to-back Most Valuable Player of the NBA and an All-Star.

We just read where he shows up at hospitals in the middle of the night after a big game and hugs strangers.

He helped build a pediatric wing at a hospital in Paraguay.

His mom told us once that he always ate his vegetables, even as a little kid.

He works hard, he plays hard, he comes through in the clutch.

And if you don't think he is tough, you did not see him trying to play with his nose hanging off his face in Game 1 on Sunday.

So how can anybody who loves the Suns hate on Steve Nash?

OK, to be fair, Marc McCain, a Valley attorney and lifelong Suns fan who sits not far from the Suns bench, does not really hate Nash.

He said he does not dislike coach Mike D'Antoni, either, although he often snipes at him about his game strategy.

But he is not convinced that Nash and D'Antoni are headed toward a championship, either.

"I'm 39, and the Suns came here in 1968," he said. "In my mind, we're no better than the Cubs. We're still looking for a championship. I want to win a championship.

"My point on Nash, if you look at the stats - and I did a whole statistical analysis on it - he tends not to outplay the opposing team's point guard when they're a good point guard.

"When you're a two-time MVP, you can't break even on your matchup. Dirk Nowitzki is taking all this crap right now for the Mavericks' loss because he didn't rise to that level.

"My point is, in this series, we're going to rise as much as Steve Nash does."

We pointed out that Nash is considered a Most Valuable Player-caliber player because he makes other players around him better, something, incidentally, that Larry Bird pointed out to Republic columnist Dan Bickley.

"I don't understand that whole argument," McCain said. "Is he making Joe Johnson better now? Is he making Dirk Nowitzki better right now? He doesn't play with them anymore.

"I understand his ability. He's the Peyton Manning of the NBA, and I love all that. But there's a reason he's not guarding Tony Parker.

"To me, there's two sides to the court, and why can't a guy bigger than Parker play him straight up? It forces our whole team to play out of position.

"We have a power forward playing center and a small forward playing power forward. I don't know everything, but it's untraditional basketball. It's fun. It's 60 wins. But I want to win a championship.

"I'm still not quite sold. I love Mike. And if Nash outplays Tony Parker at the level he should as the two-time MVP, I think we'll win the series. If not, I think we're going home."

We'll give McCain his statistics, his opinion and the Spurs Game 1.

But we'll take Nash every time.

Tool or genius, where are his opinions on what it "should be like?"

TBaslim · May 7th, 2007, 07:38 PM

Tool.

Mismatches go both ways in the NBA. The fact is we just do not match up well against the Spurs. Doesn't mean our style doesn't work. Look at Warriors vs Mavs - there the supposedly 'untraditional' team beat the snot out of the more 'traditional', 'better' team. Sometimes, teams just have other teams numbers.

For a lifelong fan with great seats, this guy doesn't seem to know much. 'Traditional' bball 25 years ago was fastbreak, up and down ball like the Suns play now. Sure, there was good D, but great Offense too.

Suns can beat the Spurs - they just have to play their hearts out.

az1965 · May 7th, 2007, 07:43 PM

Umm... pretty dumb logic and arguments.

slinslin · May 7th, 2007, 08:15 PM

Some more traditional lineups would be nice... At least not small ball with crap players like Jones...

And it is not like Nash could have done a worse job on Parker..

cly2tw · May 7th, 2007, 10:52 PM

I second the basic sentiment behind this article. Nash makes everyone on his team better for what they are NOW, yet he definitely hinders their growth into a more complete player for the LONGRUN. Paradoxically, he makes it TOO EASY for his teammates to perform well with their given limits. So, JoeJ, Dirk all improved, expanded their game, without Nash. And my gut feeling, Amare is feeling it the same way, judging from his previous announcement to become the ALLTIME-BEST NBA player in his career!

If the coach is unable to resist the temptation of momentary success of winning every meaningless regular season game, or even routing every insignificant opponents, he plays Nash too much and gives the team, no chance to succeed without him, and other players to improve their skills other than being a complementary part to him. This is akin to a long time suicide, particularly if they force Amare out with this stubbornness.

wsupkid · May 7th, 2007, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cly2tw

I second the basic sentiment behind this article. Nash makes everyone on his team better for what they are NOW, yet he definitely hinders their growth into a more complete player for the LONGRUN. Paradoxically, he makes it TOO EASY for his teammates to perform well with their given limits. So, JoeJ, Dirk all improved, expanded their game, without Nash. And my gut feeling, Amare is feeling it the same way, judging from his previous announcement to become the ALLTIME-BEST NBA player in his career!

If the coach is unable to resist the temptation of momentary success of winning every meaningless regular season game, or even routing every insignificant opponents, he plays Nash too much and gives the team, no chance to succeed without him, and other players to improve their skills other than being a complementary part to him. This is akin to a long time suicide, particularly if they force Amare out with this stubbornness.

I have something to say about that......... WHAT?

sunsfn · May 8th, 2007, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cly2tw

I second the basic sentiment behind this article. Nash makes everyone on his team better for what they are NOW, yet he definitely hinders their growth into a more complete player for the LONGRUN. Paradoxically, he makes it TOO EASY for his teammates to perform well with their given limits. So, JoeJ, Dirk all improved, expanded their game, without Nash. And my gut feeling, Amare is feeling it the same way, judging from his previous announcement to become the ALLTIME-BEST NBA player in his career!

If the coach is unable to resist the temptation of momentary success of winning every meaningless regular season game, or even routing every insignificant opponents, he plays Nash too much and gives the team, no chance to succeed without him, and other players to improve their skills other than being a complementary part to him. This is akin to a long time suicide, particularly if they force Amare out with this stubbornness.

I have read this post 3 times and every time I can not believe what you said here.
You seem to forget that good NBA basketball teams play as a team, not as individuals!

cly2tw · May 8th, 2007, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunsfn

I have read this post 3 times and every time I can not believe what you said here.
You seem to forget that good NBA basketball teams play as a team, not as individuals!

The opposite is true, I think very much in team concept in order to come to my conclusion in the above post. My focus is the long term one, which might make it sound a little off the main stream thinking.

elindholm · May 8th, 2007, 06:53 AM

The premise that good players "make their teammates better" has never been true anyway. Someone like Nash can get their teammates to perform better, or post better numbers, but that's not the same thing. Actually getting better means that you're better whether the teammate is there or not.

Nash isn't in anyone's way, but the rest of the team is what it is.

zett · May 8th, 2007, 07:20 AM

That tool use to post on the old Rivals site, he was more negative then skorp!
He will always be a miserable SOB!

Chaplin · May 8th, 2007, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zett

That tool use to post on the old Rivals site, he was more negative then skorp!
He will always be a miserable SOB!

LOL, is that KJJK?

Joe Mama · May 8th, 2007, 07:30 AM

I could be wrong, but I thought Bruce Bowen spent most of his time guarding Steve Nash? Don't know about the rest of you, but I'd rather be guarded by Shawn Marion than Bruce Bowen any day.

zett · May 8th, 2007, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaplin

LOL, is that KJJK?

Yes I'm suprised you didn't pick up on that

Gaddabout · May 8th, 2007, 08:05 AM

Put Greg Oden on this team and I bet the nation's basketball writers spend an entire season raving about Steve Nash's sudden emergence as a defender.

Most guards' defense are defined by who they have defending the basket behind them.

Black Jesus · May 8th, 2007, 01:19 PM

did they find the one person in Phoenix that doesn't like Nash and interview him? This guy clearly hasn't watched the same team I have, and he has tickets "not to far from the suns bench"