Metta World Peace Assaults Harden (ugly vid) - Page 23

Rivercard · May 16th, 2012, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carrrnuttt

Tell me what the differences are between these two hits?

Could be the camera angle, but Smith's hit looks more brutal to my eye. It was a full body takeout hit, whereas Wade's was more of just a hard foul.

Rivercard · May 16th, 2012, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95pro

the nba is a joke when it comes to superstars

Do you think Wade should have gotten a 2 game suspension for that hit, or was the 2 game suspension for Smith exessive?

95pro · May 16th, 2012, 01:10 PM

wade's was a blind sided cheap shot. yes a suspension was in order. was worse than smith's imo. he just lunged into collisons back without any warning to collison.

blake took a hit, yes. but he did a little bit of acting. i don't know if you've ever been tackled or hit like that before. but personally, i've never flipped over like blake did. your natural tendency on a hit like that is to slide, especially on a basketball court. at least they collide at oblique angles.

Phrazbit · May 16th, 2012, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95pro

wade's was a blind sided cheap shot. yes a suspension was in order. was worse than smith's imo. he just lunged into collisons back without any warning to collison.

blake took a hit, yes. but he did a little bit of acting. i don't know if you've ever been tackled or hit like that before. but personally, i've never flipped over like blake did. your natural tendency on a hit like that is to slide, especially on a basketball court. at least they collide at oblique angles.

I dont see how Wade's play even merits a flagrant or much worse a suspension. I hate the heat but he isnt cutting under cutting someone who is in the air or making a hit at a guys head.

D-Dogg · May 16th, 2012, 01:59 PM

Probably because Wade knocked the guy down from behind.

95pro · May 16th, 2012, 02:01 PM

jmo, but i'd rather get hit knowing I'm going to get hit at an oblique angle rather than getting nailed blindly in the back.

griffin wasn't undercut or in the air when he got hit.

carrrnuttt · May 16th, 2012, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phrazbit

I dont see how Wade's play even merits a flagrant or much worse a suspension.

According to the NBA's own rules:

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_b....av=ArticleList

Quote:

A flagrant foul-penalty (1) is unnecessary contact committed by a player against an opponent.

A flagrant foul-penalty (2) is unnecessary and excessive contact committed by a player against an opponent. It is an unsportsmanlike act and the offender is ejected immediately.

I think what Wade did falls under both "unnecessary" and "excessive," no?

This guy makes a good argument: http://www.foxsportsohio.com/05/16/1...94&feedID=3725

Quote:

Wade made no play on the ball. In fact, he hit Collison before he had the ball. He hit him just inside the three-point line, and Collision didn’t stop tumbling until he was at the baseline.

As Joe Friday would say, those are the facts, ma’am.

Add it all up. A blindside shoulder at the three-point line that sends a guy flying to the baseline, that brought the risk of considerable injury, that was totally unwarranted (except for Wade’s unhappiness a foul wasn’t called when he attempted a shot at the other end) — this is basketball? To call it anything but an outrageous cheap shot does not do it justice.

The NBA had precedent.

In late March, New Orleans’ Jason Smith made a similar play against Blake Griffin of the Clippers. Smith lowered his shoulder and hit Griffin as the Clippers’ star was about to take off for one of his spectacular dunks.

Smith was suspended for two games.

Smith received a flagrant 2 foul for his shoulder check. He was ejected. Wade was given a flagrant 1. He was not ejected.

That was one of the differences in the two hits. Griffin had the ball, Collison did not. Griffin saw Smith coming, Collison never knew Wade was about to hit Collison. Both those truths make Wade’s hit more wrong — and dangerous.

The other difference: Smith hit a superstar. Collison was hit by a superstar — though the way Wade is racking up cheap-shot fouls, it’s getting more difficult to admire his super play.

So far this season, in addition to the shoulder shot to Collison, Wade forcefully shoved Rip Hamilton out of bounds while “defending” the Bulls guard in April and broke the nose of Lakers star Kobe Bryant with a hard foul in the All-Star Game.

In last year’s playoffs, Wade lowered his shoulder and ran through a screen set by Celtics guard Paul Pierce that led to double technicals. Wade also was involved in a tussle that led to Celtics guard Rajon Rondo dislocating his elbow in the playoffs when Wade dragged Rondo to the floor, an action many in Boston still consider a dirty play.

But back to this year’s playoffs.

In the Heat’s first-round matchup with the Knicks, New York guard Mike Bibby lost his shoe. Wade picked it up and threw it to the bench, a small-minded action that didn’t seem to please Bibby.

Then came the behind-the-back hit to Collison, after which the home crowd was more interested in complaining about the previous non-call than recognizing Wade’s cheap shot.

Had that play happened in Indiana, Pacers fans would have raised the roof. And rightly so.

There are a lot of reasons to not like the way Wade acted and reacted in and after that loss. The non-call he complained about was 50-50 at best, yet he acted as if he’d had his nose broken without a call. He took that frustration out on Collison in as amateurish a way as he could.

Then came his postgame remarks that the Pacers celebrated the win too much. This from the guy who, during the most over-the-top celebration of a free-agent signing, called the Heat’s talented trio the greatest ever — before they’d even played a game together.

Choose a word —entitled, petulant, spoiled. Wade is making them all fit.

But none of that is the reason the NBA should have acted regarding Wade’s hit on Collison.

The league should have acted because Wade made a non-basketball, dangerous play against a defenseless guy, a play that could have resulted in serious injury and was prompted only by the hurt feelings of the guy who committed the foul.

The NBA should follow the precedent it already set and suspend Wade.

He earned it.

D-Dogg · May 16th, 2012, 02:36 PM

I still think too little was made of Wade's hard foul on Kobe in the ASG. It's the freaking ASG...and yes, I know...kobe blah blah blah...but it's stupid to foul anyone hard like that in the all star goof off game.

That article makes a really nice case of Wade popping out cheap fouls after feeling he didn't get a foul called on the other end. That's what happened in the ASG too.

I used to hate Wade, gained a ton of respect for him during the Olympics and how tireless he played, but have come back to the realm of thinking he's a bitch.

elindholm · May 16th, 2012, 03:19 PM

The Smith hit looks quite a bit worse to me. He lowers his shoulder and really drives himself hard into Griffin, like someone trying to barge through a closed door. But yes, of course the league is going to react more strongly when the victim of a hard foul is a star. That's been true forever.

The author of the lengthy piece above is disqualified as an impartial judge because he's a jilted LeBron fan. (Note that he is from Ohio and throws in the gratuitous swipe at the first joint news conference of Miami Thrice, which is barely relevant to his argument.) The question isn't whether Wade commits hard fouls, but instead whether the punishment Wade receives for committing those fouls is significantly lighter than what similar star-level players receive for similar infractions. And we already know that the answer to that question is No.

Brian in Mesa · May 16th, 2012, 03:28 PM

Wade's was not "a hard foul." It wasn't a basketball play at all. He was still fuming because he thought a foul should have been called two plays earlier when he went up for a shot. He even stared down the ref. He wanted to intentionally hit somebody for payback. Total cheap shot in the back. It was a little funny that he was so early that the pass actually hit him in the head after he'd knocked down Collison.

Ouchie-Z-Clown · May 16th, 2012, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian in Mesa

That's just it - he wasn't.

Trying to be objective - I just watched it a few more times up until Harden initiates contact with Peace. The play was over. Why go up and initiate contact with Peace? Shouldn't Harden have gone around him/to an open spot if his purpose was to receive the inbounds pass? His teammate was already out of bounds and looking to inbound the ball. Harden bodied up Peace like he was on defense rather than on offense as he should have... Just puzzling. Peace should have been getting back on defense or even putting a body on Harden, yet it was Harden who ran up and into him. Why?

omg, i've stayed outta this argument for the most part b/c i cannot believe this thread continues, but BIM, you are absolutely delusional here. you should never post again in this thread because you clearly are not capable of objectivity here.

Ouchie-Z-Clown · May 16th, 2012, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian in Mesa

Wade's was not "a hard foul." It wasn't a basketball play at all. He was still fuming because he thought a foul should have been called two plays earlier when he went up for a shot. He even stared down the ref. He wanted to intentionally hit somebody for payback. Total cheap shot in the back. It was a little funny that he was so early that the pass actually hit him in the head after he'd knocked down Collison.

and then you go and totally redeem yourself! i rescind my ban!

AzStevenCal · May 16th, 2012, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phrazbit

I dont see how Wade's play even merits a flagrant or much worse a suspension. I hate the heat but he isnt cutting under cutting someone who is in the air or making a hit at a guys head.

Man am I on an island on this one. I'd have called Collison for the foul. To me, watching the play develop from the beginning, Collison clearly runs outside his lane in an effort to cause Wade to run into him. I might have called a technical on Wade for choosing to continue at full speed once he realized he couldn't avoid the contact but IMO this was all staged by Collison. Wade is a tremendous athlete but he'd have to be super human to have avoided contact IMO.

Steve

carrrnuttt · May 16th, 2012, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzStevenCal

Man am I on an island on this one. I'd have called Collison for the foul. To me, watching the play develop from the beginning, Collison clearly runs outside his lane in an effort to cause Wade to run into him. I might have called a technical on Wade for choosing to continue at full speed once he realized he couldn't avoid the contact but IMO this was all staged by Collison. Wade is a tremendous athlete but he'd have to be super human to have avoided contact IMO.

Steve

A) If you know how to play basketball or how it's played, you should know that one of the fundamentals of driving to the hoop involves getting your body in-between any defender and the hoop and/or ball. Collison was simply making his angle to the basket more acute, so that if the defender behind him (Wade, in this case) decided to defend him, his teammate would have been wide open, as well as Collison providing a screen against said defender.

B) Unlike Griffin, who actually did flail on the ground a bit after his hit to help sell the foul, Collison got up almost immediately--something that he likely wouldn't have done had he been angling for that impact.

The bottomline is, however you look at it, what Collison did can be interpreted as a basketball move, and what Wade did can in no way be interpreted as a basketball move.

Russ Smith · May 16th, 2012, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian in Mesa

I've played plenty of basketball. Several years at the Boys Club in grade school - even a championship team. Intramurals in high school and college. Park ball at numerous parks. City leagues (full court with refs) in Scottsdale and Mesa.

I never ran into a defender while going to get an inbounds pass, unless it was the defender putting a body on me - never the other way around.

I'll start watching more closely. Guess I've never noticed it in the NBA. Odd. My bad...

It happens all the time especially after a guy scores and turns around to run back upcourt they're often not watching where they're going because they're too busy posing and grabbing their goods (-:

He flopped on the chandler play but he didn't flop on the Artest play(refuse to call him world peace).