Enjoy an Ads-Free ASFN - lighter and faster too! Become an ASFN-Contributor and help support the site.
Go Back   Arizona Sports Fans Network > Arizona Teams > Phoenix Suns

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old March 28th, 2003, 09:26 AM   #1
cheng
Registered
 

Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 183

Kidd VS. Marbury on ESPN.com


http://espn.go.com/nba/columns/smith_sam/1530683.html


Finally people are starting to realize the trade isn't one-sided after all. Great article although many points have been brought up on this board before.
Enjoy an Ads-Free ASFN - lighter and faster too! Become an ASFN-Contributor and help support the site.
cheng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 28th, 2003, 10:11 AM   #2
Joe Mama
Moderator
 

Join Date: May 2002
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 8,618
You beat me to it, Cheng. I normally do not like Sam Smith, but this is a good article. It really is a fair assessment of the situation.

I just can't believe Smith didn't have some asinine trade proposal involving Marbury and the Chicago Bulls in the article somewhere.

Friday, March 28

Suns didn't get raw deal with Marbury

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Sam Smith
Special to ESPN.com


You were so sure the Golden State Warriors were idiots. Vince Carter for Antawn Jamison? Are you kidding? The steal of the century, right? Now just a minute. The Warriors, led by the high-scoring Jamison, continue to fight for a playoff spot in the rough Western Conference, while the Toronto Raptors have become perhaps the NBA's biggest disappointment and Carter, the once next great one, has become arguably the league's most reluctant superstar -- an immense talent who'd rather pass to Antonio Davis. Who would you take now?


Marbury, bottom, endured a rough first season in Phoenix after being dealt for Kidd.
And so we get to Jason Kidd and Stephon Marbury. And suddenly it doesn't look so one-sided after all.

Phoenix has risen from the ashes of the supposedly disastrous trade and is contending again for the playoffs, now in the eighth spot for the West's final postseason berth ahead of Houston. Sure, Kidd still is a terrific player. But the Nets are no lock for the Finals anymore and may not even make it out of the first round with a post-All-Star nosedive. And Kidd, a free agent, hardly has vowed fealty to the Nets.

I happen to believe Kidd will stay with the Nets, though I suspect it's one of the last places he'd like to be. But the last place Chris Webber wanted to be was Sacramento. If San Antonio doesn't bite on Kidd, which makes little sense the way Tony Parker has developed, then the options for Kidd as a free agent are going to be limited. Denver? I don't think so. The Clippers? No way. One doesn't turn down more than $100 million, which Kidd can collect from the Nets since he's now eligible for a contract starting at 30 percent of the salary cap, or more than $13 million in the first year. I'm not sure I'd want to be paying even Kidd $20 million a year seven years from now at the end of his deal. And I doubt anyone but the Nets will be.

So this still is an awfully good trade for the Nets. Having Kidd makes them contenders in the Eastern Conference for years.

But no longer is this the one-sided deal it appeared to be when the Nets went to the Finals last season and Marbury went to jail (briefly for driving under the influence).

Sure, Amare Stoudemire is terrific. He may not win Rookie of the Year over Yao Ming, but he was the draft pick of the year. You're supposed to get the Rookie of the Year with the No. 1 overall draft pick. You're not supposed to with the No. 9 pick -- not when he skipped high school. And he's not supposed to transform your pathetic front court.

This is the Western Conference, where big men are not optional. The Suns had so few they'd even be overmatched in the East. But Stoudemire changed all that. He was someone to stand up to the Big Diesel and other locomotives chugging around the West.

But it wasn't Stoudemire who's resurrected the Suns, nor Shawn Marion. Though the Suns often were a 50-win team with Kidd, Kidd doesn't exactly match up with their talent. Kidd is not a scorer. He needs wing players to run with; the Suns truly only have Marion. Kidd needs guys to run with. Not Jake Tsakalidis and Scott Williams. It's why the Nets have struggled some this season. They miss Keith Van Horn. They're short a scorer. They've had to turn Kidd into a scorer, which he's tried. It's also knocked him out of any consideration for MVP. He tries, but he's no scorer. He's no Stephon Marbury.

Kidd vs. Marbury
How have Jason Kidd and Stephon Marbury fared since trading places? Below is a look at their statistics -- and their teams' win-loss records -- over the last two seasons.
Kidd Marbury
gms-starts 151-151 152-150
points/gm 16.7 21.6
rebs/gm 6.8 3.3
assists/gm 9.3 8.2
steals/gm 2.2 1.2
assist/TO 2.58 2.44
Team W-L 95-58 73-80

OK, Marbury was a disaster in New Jersey. He should never have left Kevin Garnett in Minnesota. But this was a 19-year-old then. He did and said stupid things. The first was wanting to go to New Jersey, nearby his New York home with all the old neighborhood guys to hang around. The next stupid thing he said was just about everything in New Jersey, painting on his shoes how he was alone, hardly enduring the losing with dignity.

He is a great talent, but he didn't have great ankles when he was traded. He needed surgery on both but, because of the deal, decided to play the season. He wasn't very good. For him. The Nets, as we all know, were great. Kidd was greater than the sum of their parts.

Now the Suns have five fewer wins than the Nets, and what would the difference be if the teams changed conferences? Against the West, the Nets are a .500 team. Against the East, the Suns are 17-11.

And it's because of Marbury. This guy is good.

He's the only player in the league in the top 10 in scoring and assists. (Hello, Tiny Archibald.) He's among the league leaders in steals. He plays defense. In the Suns' games against Steve Nash, Steve Francis, Gary Payton, Kidd, Allen Iverson and John Stockton, those top-six point guards are averaging a combined 15.8 points and shooting a collective 33.9 percent. In those games against the six, Marbury is averaging 22.4 points and shooting 43.5 percent.

However, Marbury is a scorer first, and that is the goal of the game.

He's scored 40 or more points four times this season, and the Suns needed them all in winning three of those games. One of those wins was against the hot Spurs, and Marbury ripped them for 26 fourth-quarter points. Marbury has hit five game-winning shots this season and sent another game into overtime with a last-second shot. There's a so-called "crunch time" statistic that measures points and takes away misses and turnovers in the last two minutes, and Marbury ranks second in the NBA. In the last two months, as the Suns try to return to the playoffs, he's been at his best, ranking third in the league in scoring behind only Tracy McGrady and Kobe Bryant in that span and leading in the league in assists.

This is a kid growing into a man.

Sure, there was the embarrassment of the drunk driving, but when it was time for surgery, Marbury didn't hesitate. He needed separate surgeries on his ankles, and he didn't wait, having both within weeks of each other after the season ended so he could start working out immediately and be ready for training camp. No sick leave on company time for him.

Would Jason Kidd have remained in Phoenix? Perhaps. But there clearly were issues between he and the team, and he might have walked away.

Marbury is signed through 2004-05, and he's just 26. He's still getting better. Not a bad acquisition. Not a bad acquisition at all.
__________________
"A good way to threaten somebody is to light a stick of dynamite. Then you call the guy and hold the burning fuse up to the phone. 'Hear that?' you say. 'That's dynamite, baby.'" - Jack Handy
Joe Mama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 28th, 2003, 10:27 AM   #3
hcsilla
Registered User
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Budapest,Hungary
Posts: 2,335
Good article.
The 1st one what I have read from Sam Smith.
hcsilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 28th, 2003, 10:58 AM   #4
Joe Mama
Moderator
 

Join Date: May 2002
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 8,618
This probably isn't the most appropriate place to post this, but I thought it was funny. It was from another article on ESPN.com talking about what each team (Houston & Phoenix) need to do to make the playoffs.

2. Become more unselfish. The Rockets rank 28th in the league in assists at just 18.3 per game, so if they can distribute the ball more down the stretch, it will be a big help. Steve Francis is the only player on the roster averaging more than three assists per game, so guys such as Cuttino Mobley, Moochie Norris and Kenny Thomas have to be more willing to move the ball and create open shots for others.

Someone needs to tell Fred Carter that Kenny Thomas has been playing for Philadelphia for the last few months.

Joe Mama
__________________
"A good way to threaten somebody is to light a stick of dynamite. Then you call the guy and hold the burning fuse up to the phone. 'Hear that?' you say. 'That's dynamite, baby.'" - Jack Handy
Joe Mama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 28th, 2003, 11:13 AM   #5
SirStefan32
Krycek, Alex Krycek
 
SirStefan32's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 10,620
Send a message via AIM to SirStefan32
WOW! What an excellent article by Sam Smith!
__________________
"Don't try to threaten me Mulder! I've watched presidents die."

"If people would know the things I know, we'd all fall apart."

"Once again, tonight, the course of human history will be set by two unknown men standing in the shadows."

Cigarette Smoking Man
SirStefan32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 28th, 2003, 11:34 AM   #6
hcsilla
Registered User
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Budapest,Hungary
Posts: 2,335
Quote:
Originally posted by Joe Mama


Someone needs to tell Fred Carter that Kenny Thomas has been playing for Philadelphia for the last few months.

Joe Mama
Isn't Fred Carter the dumbest one among espn.com's NBA "experts"?
hcsilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 28th, 2003, 11:36 AM   #7
Chaplin
Public Enemy #1
 
Chaplin's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 21,237
Quote:
Originally posted by hcsilla
Isn't Fred Carter the dumbest one among espn.com's NBA "experts"?
I thought that title belonged to Bill Walton.
Chaplin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 28th, 2003, 11:42 AM   #8
Joe Mama
Moderator
 

Join Date: May 2002
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 8,618
Quote:
Originally posted by Chaplin
I thought that title belonged to Bill Walton.
Bill Walton is far and away the biggest jackass on ESPN, but I think Fred Carter is dumber.

Joe Mama
__________________
"A good way to threaten somebody is to light a stick of dynamite. Then you call the guy and hold the burning fuse up to the phone. 'Hear that?' you say. 'That's dynamite, baby.'" - Jack Handy
Joe Mama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 28th, 2003, 11:48 AM   #9
SirStefan32
Krycek, Alex Krycek
 
SirStefan32's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 10,620
Send a message via AIM to SirStefan32
Quote:
Originally posted by Chaplin
I thought that title belonged to Bill Walton.

Bill Walton doesn't count. He is the ultimate, untouchable idiot.

Off the topic, who do you think knows what they are talking about on ESPN?

Mark Stein and Tom Tolbert are about the only two people who know what they are talking about, in my oppinion.
__________________
"Don't try to threaten me Mulder! I've watched presidents die."

"If people would know the things I know, we'd all fall apart."

"Once again, tonight, the course of human history will be set by two unknown men standing in the shadows."

Cigarette Smoking Man
SirStefan32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 28th, 2003, 11:57 AM   #10
boisesuns
Standing Tall And Traded
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 3,763
Blog Entries: 1
Send a message via AIM to boisesuns Send a message via MSN to boisesuns
Quote:
Originally posted by Joe Mama

Someone needs to tell Fred Carter that Kenny Thomas has been playing for Philadelphia for the last few months.

Joe Mama
joe, have you watched nba 2night? fred carter tries to say why the rockets will make the playoffs and tim legler says the suns will. anyways fred starts babbling(i think he likes to hear himself talk) and legler actually makes a decent comment arguing for the suns or against what "mad dog" carter said, and he keeps doing more babbling until he's satisfied his need from hearing himself talk good job catching him!!

i agree with chap, bill walton is crazy. he loves to say "back in my day" or "throw it down big man" he thinks he knows it all about basketball rather than worrying about calling the game.....
__________________
Porter Hand Wound Guitar Pickups. http://www.porterpickups.com
boisesuns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 28th, 2003, 12:09 PM   #11
elindholm
rehabilitated
 
elindholm's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: L.A. area
Posts: 16,584
David Aldridge might be more articulate than Carter, but I don't think he understands the league any better.
elindholm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 28th, 2003, 12:16 PM   #12
hcsilla
Registered User
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Budapest,Hungary
Posts: 2,335
Quote:
Originally posted by SirStefan32
Bill Walton doesn't count. He is the ultimate, untouchable idiot.
lol

Quote:

Off the topic, who do you think knows what they are talking about on ESPN?

Mark Stein and Tom Tolbert are about the only two people who know what they are talking about, in my oppinion.
Tolbert is nothing special.

I like Marc Stein and Chad Ford except Ford's some trade ideas.
Ken Bikoff is OK too.
hcsilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 28th, 2003, 12:24 PM   #13
Joe Mama
Moderator
 

Join Date: May 2002
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 8,618
On TNT I really like Danny Ainge as a commentator. In fact I think he and John Thompson and that other guy are the best NBA commentating crew.

As far as ESPN goes they have a pretty lame TV crew. I'm just glad Tim Hardaway signed with Indiana, so I don't have to listen to him anymore.

I wonder who is calling the game tonight?

BTW I simply can't take Cotton Fitzsimmons and Gary Bender anymore. I like to complain about the referees as much as the next guy, but those two are ridiculous.

Joe Mama
__________________
"A good way to threaten somebody is to light a stick of dynamite. Then you call the guy and hold the burning fuse up to the phone. 'Hear that?' you say. 'That's dynamite, baby.'" - Jack Handy
Joe Mama is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Tags
allen iverson, amare stoudemire, antawn jamison, antonio davis, chris webber, cuttino mobley, danny ainge, gary payton, golden state warriors, jake tsakalidis, jason kidd, john stockton, keith van, keith van horn, kenny thomas, kevin garnett, scott williams, state warriors, stephon marbury, steve francis, tony parker, tracy mcgrady, van horn, vince carter, yao ming



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Sitemap:1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:07 AM.



Subscribe in a reader
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007 - 2008, PixelFX Studios
Inactive Reminders By Icora Web Design