From another board

thegrahamcrackr · July 29th, 2005, 02:39 PM

I read a thread on this somewhere else about a week ago, and I thought it would be interesting to talk about.

The basic premise is that Tmac and Joe follow the same career path.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loose Recap

First off the similarities are there:

Great NBA bodies
Had to play good defense to keep playing time early on
Both had a rough couple of beginning years

The Stats

Tmac's last season in Toronto:

15.4 ppg
1.14 spg
3.3 apg
6.3 rpg
45% shooting

Joe's last season in Phoenix:

17.1 ppg
.96 spg
3.5 apg
5.1 rpg
46% shooting

When Orlando offered the max to McGrady, the general consensus was that they overpaid. The Raptors wanted to keep him around pretty bad, but they couldn't justify paying him the max when he would always be behind Carter. Toronto fans claimed that the Magic would be regretting the deal in a couple years when he was chewing up all of their cap, and that he would never be nothing more than a nice player. The next season he won MIP in Orlando, and the rest is history.....

When Atlanta offered the max to Johnson, the general consensus was that they overpaid. The Suns wanted to keep him around pretty bad, but they are having problems justifying the max for a guy that will be behind Amare and Marion. Some Phoenix fans claim that the Hawks will regret this contract as it will chew up their cap space for the next 5 years.......

Get the drift?

So, do you guys think that Joe could evolve as much as McGrady did? Also, can he evolve that much on the Suns roster? Or does he need to go somewhere to be a top option in order to blossom?

Btw, this is why I think Joe may want to go to Atlanta. It isn't just about being the man on a team, but it is about the chance to grow his game into being a top player in the NBA.

ASUCHRIS · July 29th, 2005, 02:43 PM

As much as I love JJ, I just don't see him having that mentality. It's hard to ever get a feel for how JJ is feeling, and whether he wants to take over a game just because he always has that half awake affect.

thegrahamcrackr · July 29th, 2005, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASUCHRIS

As much as I love JJ, I just don't see him having that mentality. It's hard to ever get a feel for how JJ is feeling, and whether he wants to take over a game just because he always has that half awake affect.

I know what you mean. I can't really remember Tmac's personality when he was in Toronto, but he also has that half awake look to him almost all the time. Remember that interview when he was being compared to Kobe? All he said was he wish he had the drive that Kobe did.

ASUCHRIS · July 29th, 2005, 02:58 PM

Who knows? Perhaps it is something that can be developed, they are/were both really young. JJ just doesn't seem to have that swagger that most elite players have. One thing all of us agree on is the fact that JJ has the ability to be an elite player in this league. That has never been the question. Does he have the mentality to be a max worthy player? I guess we'll find out...

thegrahamcrackr · July 29th, 2005, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASUCHRIS

Who knows? Perhaps it is something that can be developed, they are/were both really young. JJ just doesn't seem to have that swagger that most elite players have. One thing all of us agree on is the fact that JJ has the ability to be an elite player in this league. That has never been the question. Does he have the mentality to be a max worthy player? I guess we'll find out...

I hear what you are saying. The reason why McGrady is used is because he seems to have that same passive style in his play. They are both just very smooth, and never look like they have the swagger you refer to.

I think that McGrady and Johnson have very similar personalities. I don't really know how Tmac dominates so much without the attitude, but maybe that means that Joe won't have to change his personality to be great?

SunsPride · July 29th, 2005, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegrahamcrackr

So, do you guys think that Joe could evolve as much as McGrady did?

Joe's going to be a good player, maybe make the all star game a couple of times. but McGrady? you must be joking!

Joe Mama · July 29th, 2005, 03:19 PM

JJ has great size, but McGrady is every bit as big, and he's longer. McGrady is also much more athletic. It's funny that when McGrady left Toronto he was actually known more for his defense than his offense.

don't think JJ has the same kind of outside that McGrady does /did, but I do think that he could be a very good NBA player. He's already good, but I mean part of a great two-man core with Amare Stoudemire.

Joe Mama

thegrahamcrackr · July 29th, 2005, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunsPride

Joe's going to be a good player, maybe make the all star game a couple of times. but McGrady? you must be joking!

Fair enough, but when McGrady left Toronto did you honestly think he would be like he is now?

sunsfn · July 29th, 2005, 03:26 PM

I am not sure I believe that JJ wants to go to Atlanta. I think he may be upset that the suns did not pay him last year and signed Q, and his agent found someone to make sure he got a big contract. I think the suns will match and JJ will have a great year.

I think JJ is going to get better than he is and be an all star in a couple of years, maybe next year.

I am not sure why everybody is concerned any more about his mentality. He showed a lot of times last year that he can take the last shot, score against the best defense. (spurs in the playoffs when hurt)

I agree he does not show his emotions except occasionally, but he did more times last year than before, and I think he will show them more this year. When he is on the court he seems to be zoned in and does not want to get out of that mentality.

I remember that McGrady did not get playing time at the start of his career and he did not want to stay in Toronto because of that, and thought they did not play him as much the last year so he could not get a big contract from them.

-

SunsPride · July 29th, 2005, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegrahamcrackr

Fair enough, but when McGrady left Toronto did you honestly think he would be like he is now?

He did show signs

thegrahamcrackr · July 29th, 2005, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunsPride

He did show signs

Lol, and so has Joe......

Remember when Amare and Marbury were gone. Joe was unbelieveable.

I am not saying that Joe will become Tmac. However, when you look back to when Tmac was in Toronto - they are pretty similar.

Treesquid · July 29th, 2005, 03:43 PM

I think Joe could be a great star in this league maybe not as over hyped as McGrady is but everybit as effective.

The issue Sunspride is having is common amougst long time Suns fans, this is the grass certainly is greener on the other side and stars are traded for or signed not developed. JC has spoon fed most suns fans with free agents and trades that it is very hard for them to project talent inhouse. I am sure Sunspride also has this same issue projecting Amare's assent to super stardom. It's not his fault he is just never seen super stars actually developed before.

and no KJ was not a superstar.

se7en · July 29th, 2005, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treesquid

I think Joe could be a great star in this league maybe not as over hyped as McGrady is but everybit as effective.

The issue Sunspride is having is common amougst long time Suns fans, this is the grass certainly is greener on the other side and stars are traded for or signed not developed. JC has spoon fed most suns fans with free agents and trades that it is very hard for them to project talent inhouse. I am sure Sunspride also has this same issue projecting Amare's assent to super stardom. It's not his fault he is just never seen super stars actually developed before.

and no KJ was not a superstar.

YES, KJ was a SUPERSTAR...

Arizona's Finest · July 29th, 2005, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegrahamcrackr

Lol, and so has Joe......

Remember when Amare and Marbury were gone. Joe was unbelieveable.

I am not saying that Joe will become Tmac. However, when you look back to when Tmac was in Toronto - they are pretty similar.

exactly right graham....This is a very apt comparison and one i made a couple weeks ago. You can say all you want about how "tmac showed signs" and joe didnt but you would be wrong. The big difference between the two is McGrady is more explosive and creative around the basket, while Joe has that floater shot and an unbelievable eye for the pass. Joe wont reach that potential fully next season here, but he will show the signs of taking over that second option level this year. They will trade Marion and Nash will take a lesser offensive role, as he will then be 34. Then JJ/STAT are the Jordan/Pippen, Shaq/Kobe, Malone/Stockton type duos for the next 10+ years. If we win any rings in the next ten years its because of both of those two. I really believe Joe can develop ALOT more. Hes only 24......

Draftnik00 · July 29th, 2005, 10:25 PM

I just signed on, need read some posts but McGrady was a lot more athletic and one is asked to play a Jordan type of game (McGrady) and if JJ goes to the Hawks, he'll play a Magic type of role... at least I think that's what position he'll play?