Can this frontcourt become elite?

BC867 · August 9th, 2003, 03:01 PM

If Zarko Cabarkapa shows anywhere near the progress at Power Forward that Amare did last year, we know that, as the season progresses, we're going to see the two of them on the floor at the same time alot.

If that pans out, my question is . . . can a frontcourt of Amare/Zarko/Matrix move into the elite of the league?

And could it be competitive during the post-season?
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As an afterthought, even before the Kobe incident, I told friends that the Lakers 4 all-star lineup will not be intact during the post-season (probably due to injury) . . . and that we -- and any other team in the West -- should not consider the Lakers a shoo-in!
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What are your thoughts about each point?

elindholm · August 9th, 2003, 03:43 PM

If that pans out, my question is . . . can a frontcourt of Amare/Zarko/Matrix move into the elite of the league?

Offensively, maybe, but not defensively. None of those players is a center. If the Suns luck out and face a "centerless" team, and Stoudemire is the de facto center, then who will guard the other team's power forward? Certainly not Cabarkapa, unless he becomes very much stronger.

we -- and any other team in the West -- should not consider the Lakers a shoo-in!

If anyone wants to make an even-money wager as to whether the Lakers will win the championship next season (you win the bet if they don't), let me know. I'd probably even offer you 3:2 odds, except I'm not really the gambling type.

The Lakers are as close to a shoe-in as we will see in the four major sports for at least the next 20 years.

KloD · August 9th, 2003, 04:01 PM

Offensively, maybe, but not defensively. None of those players is a center.

I agree to some degree, BUT Amare in time could be allot like Zo and play with some of the better centers. He could still grow a little and put on some more weight. I don't think the original question was for just next year so in time I do believe this front court could hold it's own to any other.

The Lakers are as close to a shoe-in as we will see in the four major sports for at least the next 20 years.

That's impossible to predict. This could become a trend in the NBA? I see 4 guys that as individuals are great players, but as a team I don't see them finishing at the top. I personally think San Antonio is a far better team and the Lakers are maybe equal to the T-Wolves. I'll say this, it will be the best marketing team in the next 20 years, but as far as a championship...I really don't think it will happen.

Yuma · August 9th, 2003, 04:35 PM

If Cabarkapa succeeds and they want him AND Amare on the court at the same time, I see more of a Cabarkapa at SF, Amare PF, Little Jake/Googs at Center, Marion at "2 guard", and Marbury at the point. That seems more likely from Frank Johnson. Marion will be shooting the three ball for us in that lineup, with Marbs occaisonally loading up on the long ball, also. However, this will be more of an attack the basket offense!

elindholm · August 9th, 2003, 06:03 PM

I see more of a Cabarkapa at SF, Amare PF, Little Jake/Googs at Center, Marion at "2 guard", and Marbury at the point. That seems more likely from Frank Johnson.

I'm wondering why you consider such a big lineup to be "more likely from Frank Johnson."

I think that Johnson would be much more likely to have Joe Johnson in that lineup than Voskuhl or Gugliotta. And I doubt that Marion will see any time at SG, except maybe once in a great while as a novel and very short-lived experiment.

JCSunsfan · August 9th, 2003, 06:42 PM

I think that there is a good possibility of Amare eventually playing center. Male bodies usually don't gain completely mature muscle mass until around 25.

While Amare may have hit his peak early, its also possible he'll be even more of a beast in the future.

If he adds 1" and 20 lbs of lean muscle, he can go up against any center in the league with maybe the exception of Shaq (but he would give Shaq some problems too).

He would be an elite center.

I think the bigger question is whether Zarko could hold down the PF position defensively.

Yuma · August 9th, 2003, 09:34 PM

Quote:

I'm wondering why you consider such a big lineup to be "more likely from Frank Johnson." I think that Johnson would be much more likely to have Joe Johnson in that lineup than Voskuhl or Gugliotta. And I doubt that Marion will see any time at SG, except maybe once in a great while as a novel and very short-lived experiment.

Look at the minutes from last season. Johnson hardly took Marion or Marbury out at all! That being said, If Zarko plays with Amare on the floor at the same time (two PFs), then I am betting Johnson is still not taking Marbury and Marion out. That leaves a fifth player, and if it's a center, it's probably Little Jake, or Maybe Googs for a shooter. Somebody has to play the opposing center, and I bet it's not Joe Johnson! LOL. Hey your lineup is equally plausible with FJ as coach!

Yuma · August 9th, 2003, 09:38 PM

Quote:

I think the bigger question is whether Zarko could hold down the PF position defensively.

from what I saw at summer camp, I think he would be better suited guarding the SF position. I think some NBA PFs would give him some fits right now. However he looked quick enough, and had good enough footwork to guard SFs.

I also think Amare may be our future center. As his body matures, I can easily see him becoming a center, ala Shawn Kemp. Last I saw Kemp was still available as a Free Agent.

elindholm · August 9th, 2003, 11:00 PM

That being said, If Zarko plays with Amare on the floor at the same time (two PFs)

So far, Cabarkapa seems better suited to play SF (although I'm sure he will see time at PF/C).

That leaves a fifth player, and if it's a center

It won't be. If Stoudemire and Cabarkapa are on the floor at the same time, most likely one of them will be the center. A lineup of Voskuhl/Stoudemire/Cabarkapa with two guards is just barely possible, but that will be while Marion is resting.

Johnson hardly took Marion or Marbury out at all!

That's correct, and when Marion wasn't playing SF, he was playing PF. I don't believe he saw a single minute at SG during the season.

Stoudemire or Cabarkapa will play center long, long before Marion plays shooting guard. I'm not saying that's good or bad, but that's the way it is.

Errntknght · August 10th, 2003, 03:05 AM

Here's an interesting possibility... Zarko at SG on offense with Marion at SF. On defense, Zarko guarding the opposing SF and Marion on the SG. This might work if Z is a good passer, as he appears to be, and keeps his turnovers in check. It might look to the casual observer that Marion were playing SG... This doesn't sound like FJ, I know, but if JJ were having a bad game he might give it a shot.

In general, I'd expect to see Zarko playing in situations where Langhi would have played last year and also in place of Outlaw, some of the time, in any lineup where Outlaw played last year. Naturally, I'd expect him to be the main backup at SF, regardless of the lineup. Heck, I guess that covers just about every imaginable lineup, except Cabarkapa at SG....

One thing I'd like to see is some games where FJ keeps cycling fresh players onto the floor and they play a relentless running game from start to finish. That would require that Barbosa progress a good amount but that may well happen. They could start Marbs, JJ, Marion, Amare, and L. Jake then have Barbosa, Zarko, Outlaw and Casey off the bench. Casey isn't that swift but he would get there in time to be the guy spotting up for a jumper when the defense was guarding the basket.

Draftnik00 · August 10th, 2003, 03:26 AM

I have yet to see Cabarkapa but IMO - PF is best position. If Z is at SF, how much more room in paint does he open up with Voskuhl/Tsakalidis still in game at C. Possibly could be a great 3PT shooter but he doesn't offer 3PT shooting anymore than Marion and Johnson do, unless on court at same time playing a big position.

PG: Marbury can hold any PG defensively 1 on 1 - Barbosa has defensive skill?
SG/SF: Johnson, Penny, and Marion can match up with most swing position players
PF/C: Stoudemire, Outlaw, Tsakalidis, and Voskuhl - all decent defenders

1 defender on floor that may or not need double team isn't end of world? Cabarkapa has length and quickness, with 3PT ability to spread floor, ballhandling, driving ability at PF - how many SF's is a 7FTer going to penetrate pass, while again most SF's are 3PT shooters as well. He can play SF to give Suns more size and different looks but doesn't yet have post-up moves? I'm no coach though and well Basketball is the 1 team sport never played on as team but I don't see at SF what he offers that much more than Marion, Johnson etc...

JCSunsfan · August 10th, 2003, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Errntknght
Here's an interesting possibility... Zarko at SG on offense with Marion at SF. On defense, Zarko guarding the opposing SF and Marion on the SG. This might work if Z is a good passer, as he appears to be, and keeps his turnovers in check. It might look to the casual observer that Marion were playing SG... This doesn't sound like FJ, I know, but if JJ were having a bad game he might give it a shot.

Its an intriguing idea, but it does move Shawn away from the defensive boards. That would be a negative.

Overall, it should be a decent rebounding lineup though.

Joe Mama · August 10th, 2003, 08:31 PM

I guarantee we're going to see a lot of Shawn Marion, Cabarkapa, and Amare Stoudemire in the frontcourt together. Defensively I think we are talking too much about man on man a lot. I think we're going to see different zone defenses with those guys together.

And before we all started getting down on the prospect of small ball lets remember that small ball worked extremely well against the world champion San Antonio Spurs. If the Phoenix Suns had any sort of bench last April, Marbury had stayed healthy, etc. I believe they could have won that series.

BTW Eric, I will take you up on that bet. I'll bet you $50 that the LA Lakers do not win the NBA championships next season. What do you say?

Joe Mama

DaFlogger · August 10th, 2003, 08:51 PM

Why not make it $100 Joe? I'm sure you wouldn't mind some extra cash!

elindholm · August 10th, 2003, 09:43 PM

BTW Eric, I will take you up on that bet. I'll bet you $50 that the LA Lakers do not win the NBA championships next season. What do you say?

Sure, I'll stick by my earlier statement. And each of us knows that the other is good for it if he loses. So you're on -- I get the Lakers, you get everyone else, even money for $50 each way.

I'm kind of hoping to lose, you understand, but I really don't think I will.

By the way, let's agree to a push if, for some bizarre reason (like a work stoppage), no champion is crowned this season.