Dback Jon

Once again, Russ hits the nail on the head.

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R.I.P Tim Minnick

The KING of Cards

ajcardfan

Yep.

I thought the "you don't understand big time college basketball" line was special for fans. It was actually used on a rabid UCLA fan?


Don't make Russ go back and find those posts Cat fans, you know he can! He's trying to be nice.

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We live in a world which is full of misery and ignorance, and the plain duty of each and all of us is to try to make the little corner he can influence somewhat less miserable and somewhat less ignorant than it was before he entered it.

T.H. Huxley

Mr. Boldin

First of all we just signed the ceneter, which would make that player Greg Smith for 09. If you think Withey is a Kirk Walters clone then you have never seen Withey play a game. Not only did Withey set the California single season blocks record, but he finished 2nd all-time in the state in blocks and averaged 20, 10, and 8 his senior season. Ill just end the argument there.

Comparing last year's team to this year's team minus Bayless and plus Jennings might be the worst compairson in a long time. There is no KO, Lute is not on a LOA, Arizona is a much deeper team this season even without Jennings and Bayless and I think its safe to say Hill, Wise, and Budinger will develop into better players than they were last season, not to mention Withey taking the starting center position and sliding Hill back to PF. But Withey is the next Kirk Walters... so nevermind about that.

Either way, UA's chances of a conference title and a Final Four birth took a huge hit with Jennings opting not to come. UA will miss him sorely next season, because we had the chance to make a deep run. Not saying that still can't happen, but it is less likely without Jennings and that is a fact.

MaoTosiFanClub

I can also go back and find where Russ said he wished UCLA and Howland had recruited Jennings because of his ridiculous talent so his 'I told you so' rant is for the most part hindsight. You want me to find those posts and PM's?

We were all very aware of the situation with Jennings but because of the one-year rule I felt he was worth it because he was locked into Arizona (this was obviously before Europe was even thought about). I was wrong, but Russ and ASU fan acting high and mighty on this situation is pretty hypocritical especially because Renardo Sidney is about to bounce to Europe and waste months of Sendek and staff's recruiting efforts. So does that mean you and your fellow Tempe people are as clueless as we are since you all have been talking him up since he showed interest in ASU despite the red flags Russ and I have pointed out?

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Addressing the Core by Rod Graves:

1. Re-sign Calvin Pace (Miss)
2. Negotiate Extension with Dansby (Miss #2)
3. Re-structure Fitzgerald (TBD)

Chaplin

And we have a winner!

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"I don't flop. I don't complain. I beat you." - Shaquille O'Neal

MaoTosiFanClub

And anyone comparing Jeff Withey to Kirk Walters is insane. Walters only got a scholarship because Lute was lazy and thought boy wonder Pastner could develop a seven footer with no game except a wicked high jump. From what I recall the only other schools that offered Walters were marginal mid-major teams near his hometown. Withey was once a Louisville commit and after he got out of that almost everyone in the country including UCLA called to see if he was interested.

Nice comparison though, somewhat like comparing apples to train cars.

__________________
Addressing the Core by Rod Graves:

1. Re-sign Calvin Pace (Miss)
2. Negotiate Extension with Dansby (Miss #2)
3. Re-structure Fitzgerald (TBD)

Russ Smith

True I did say more than once earlier that I wished UCLA had recruited Jennings, that was before I'd seen him play a real game. First time I saw him play a real game was against Derrick Rose in HS, on EsPN, and he basically sandbagged for 3 quarters and then went nuts in teh 4th. his team lost and he came off like Gilbert Arenas in those games where he refused to shoot to prove he wasn't selfish. After that I fairly consistently said I now got why UCLA didn't recruit him.

What I'm saying is some of the folks in this thread(not you Mao I think you've been pretty clear here) are saying things out of rivalry claim that are inconsistent with what they said before.

Chaplin in particular told me I was being naive if I thought Jennings wouldn't qualify. I bit my tongue for a few days but after seeing him continually go after others here without acknowledging his own original take had totally changed, I felt compelled to post, without actually naming people which was probably a mistake since that way many people assume I'm talking about them.

So to be clear I think Jennings is the most talented PG in the class, as a soph I was very much in favor of UCLA recruiting him. AS a junior I saw him play a real game and decided then I didn't want him.

May 7th 2008 Chaplin posted in the thread Gary Parrish says Jennings May not Qualify?

"Come on. A UCLA fan should know that a kid with Jennings talent will find some way from the school to get in."

March 27th 2008 in the thread brandon Jennings on ESPN right now I posted

"I agree. I guess the problem is I've never seen Jennings play where I really felt like he cared if his team won or not. I really wanted him at UCLA for quite awhile but based on the last 3 times I've seen him play I'm glad he's not a Bruin.

I think he has Isiah level talent he's ridiculously skilled. But I have yet to see him play winning basketball. Adrian Branch said it at half time get in a defensive stance don't stand with your arms at your sides. he's done that everytime I've seen him play.

If you saw his matchup with Derrick Rose last year on ESPN he did the same thing most of the game. It was almost like he was afraid to get outplayed by Rose so he just dogged it so people couldn't say he "lost the matchup" they'd be wondering if he was sick or something.

I will say this, there are a few UCLA fans defending Jennings, it's an all star game, the kid has massive talent. It's not unanimous at all but it's not because Jennings went to Arizona. Look at a USC board they're all saying in hindsight I'm so glad he de-committed."

I readily admit my opinion on Brandon changed as do you Mao but I do think some of the stuff on this thread was from people who were clearly wrong about Jennings and rather than admit it(as other have) they just attacked other posters.

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"This space available"

MaoTosiFanClub

I've really only attacked posters on this thread who have said dumb things like Arizona Basketball is going down the toilet because of this when the results and recruitring trail say otherwise.

I was wrong about Jennings but I'm still convinced if Europe was not an option (and honestly, who saw that one coming?) that Jennings would find a way to get into school even if it was shady. Hell, he was already admitted into Arizona for heaven's sake before getting flagged by the NCAA so how were we to know? So yeah, in hindsight we should've taken Larry Drew and told Jennings to pound sand but them's the breaks. It sucks but Arizona and other programs survived similar scanerios in the earlier part of this decade when kids with signed LOI's jumped to the NBA out of HS in record numbers.

__________________
Addressing the Core by Rod Graves:

1. Re-sign Calvin Pace (Miss)
2. Negotiate Extension with Dansby (Miss #2)
3. Re-structure Fitzgerald (TBD)

Chaplin

There's nothing that indicates there was no way for him to get into the UofA, so I don't know where you are coming up with this accusation Russ.

Ever since Europe was first mentioned, it's pretty much been assumed that was what he was going to do because of the money. And that's regardless of how good of a player you think he is/was.

And my opinion has changed as well--and again, it has changed since this whole situation has come about. I'm not sure why you felt the need to single me out when I wasn't really wrong. The school probably would have figured out a way to get him in and able to play--it just never got far enough for that to happen.

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"I don't flop. I don't complain. I beat you." - Shaquille O'Neal

Russ Smith

We're just going to disagree here then because I don't believe that Jennings doesn't know his score and I don't believe UA doesn't have it. The LA Times quoted UA today saying they're waiting for his scores from the Clearinghouse but I think we both know privacy rules as they are if Jennings publicly says I don't have them, UA can't then publicly say well we do. The privacy rules are quite strict they can't confirm anything that's not already public knowledge so as long as Jennings is saying he doesn't have them, UA has to just agree with him.

I think it's clear Jennings cheated, got caught, didn't get a passing score in attempt 3 and tried to hook up with Europe before that got out, unfortunately for him Bordow outed him.

And I singled you out because you made a couple of posts on this thread that were attacks on others without really acknowledging your own prior posts but now I see why, because you believe Jennings is telling the truth about his scores. I hadn't actually considered that anybody still might believe Jennings version.

So the question of could Jennings have qualified will never be answered convincingly because Jennings bolted.

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"This space available"

ajcardfan

Personally, I don't really remember saying much of anything about Sidney. If I did, I'd guess I'd say it's worth getting a rent-a-player who is that highly touted for once. But, I've always thought it's pretty unlikely we get him. If we don't, I won't be upset because it's such a long shot in my mind. And, I don't care how much time Sendek has spent on him. There are plenty of hours in the day for him to follow up on that and do the rest of his job.

And, I don't think I've been "high and mighty". I've never said we'd be better than UofA next season. To me, that would be "high and mighty". Do I think we match up better with UofA, and the rest of the Pac 10, better than we have in a long time? Yes. But, I'm not talking smack. It has to be proven on the court. I've followed ASU basketball since 1977 when my Dad got hired there as a prof. I've seen the train jump the tracks too many times, when it was supposedly going the right way, and the program go up in flames.

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We live in a world which is full of misery and ignorance, and the plain duty of each and all of us is to try to make the little corner he can influence somewhat less miserable and somewhat less ignorant than it was before he entered it.

T.H. Huxley

Mulli

a lot of truth there. I suppose Jennings leaving might be a good thing in the long run.

Chaplin

Wow. I'm stunned. I apologize if I offended you. I admit that I've attacked a few people on the UofA board, but I'm pretty sure most of that was directed to ASU trolls, and certainly not you.

If you'd like, I could now say I was excited for Jennings because he is a great talent, but he's not a smart kid, mainly for listening to vultures like Vacarro. If you want to assume that his scores were known, that's your prerogative, but that is a gross assumption that you are using to belittle me and my thoughts on the matter. Would never have thought that of you.

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"I don't flop. I don't complain. I beat you." - Shaquille O'Neal

Russ Smith

So it's clear my not believing Jennings comment was not meant as belittling you I genuinely hadn't considered the notion that some people might still believe him I just assumed by now most people felt he was stalling.

We're never going to get a public disclosure on his scores now I actually will predict now that in a few weeks Jennings will sign with Europe and claim he qualified. People will contact UA and they'll either decline to comment or say privacy laws prevent them from commenting on a kid who's not a student at UA.

But to be clear I don't believe Jennings and that has nothing to do with you and everything to do with Jennings.

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"This space available"

Chaplin

I will also clarify and say that if he indeed is lying, then I won't be that surprised. I think this is more about Vaccaro whispering dollar signs into his ear than any SAT score, pass or fail. I have a pretty good gut feeling that even if he had passed, he'd still go to Europe. At this point, having a bad score is an excuse. My issue is that he just isn't a smart kid and doesn't recognize how he's being used by Vacarro and his ilk.

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"I don't flop. I don't complain. I beat you." - Shaquille O'Neal