Brian in Mesa

The founders of Image:

Todd McFarlane
Rob Liefeld
Jim Lee
Marc Silvestri
Erik Larsen
Jim Valentino
Whilce Portacio

The characters we were discussing:

Cable - created by Chris Claremont, Louise Simonson, and Rob Liefield
Gambit - created by Chris Claremont and Jim Lee
Deadpool - created by Fabian Nicieza and Rob Liefield
Bishop - created by Jim Lee, Whilce Portacio, and John Byrne

Also - popular villain:

Omega Red (Jan 1992) - created by Jim Lee and John Byrne

Pariah

Personally, as an old guy myself, I read comics for the "old guys." I love the Hulk, and I hope they ndon't let his story go stagnant.

As for "great" new characters, I'd say there aren't any. I think the "great" ones are based on archetypes, and you only have so many of those.

...and Gambit isn't one of them!


Also, I think this is simply another chapter in Banner's saga. I don't think Jones will be a hulk for more than a handful of issues.

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America cannot have an empire abroad and a Republic at home.

Pariah

It's astounding you can say this with a straight face. That "talant" was much of what was wrong with the industry in the 90's.

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America cannot have an empire abroad and a Republic at home.

Chris_Sanders

Thanks! Seeing the other creators that explains my mis-remembering of Claremont and Image.

Chris_Sanders

The 90s was when the comic industry (especially Marvel) was booming and much of it had to do with those guys. Rob Leifield may be a complete ass but he did more to recreate Spiderman's look than anyone else not named Stan Lee has.

Right now the only thing Marvel has going for it is movies and "hot shot angles" like the Civil War. Stories that are so pointless and over the top that they have to do another "hot shot angle" to restart the entire character. I have read some of the Civil War stuff and it was awful.

Chris_Sanders

BTW, Whilce Portacio might be the greatest comic book artist I have ever seen.

Chris_Sanders

Then I look at Jim Lee's stuff and think he might be better. [IMG]

Pariah

I think you've romanticized the era. Sales were inflated because of multiple gimmick covers per issue and the very things you're holding against Marvel today: "hot shot angles." It was all style and no substance. The writing was terrible and the art was (overall) not good.

In regards to Spider-Man of the 90's, I think you're talking about McFarland, not Leifield. McFarland's SM was one of the few bright spots for Marvel in the 90s, IMO...and he was one of the few Image guys that were talented enough to go it on their own (along with, to a lesser extent, Jim Lee and Erik Larson). Liefield was F'n terrible. Just awful. Here's a prime example:


Here's a little something about the 1990's from wikipedia, this entry seems to agree with me that it was a dark time for comic books:

Today, you've got writers like Jeph Loeb, Grant Morrison, Brian K. Vaughn, Mark Millar, Kurt Busiek, Joss Whedon and to some degree Brian Michael Bendis an Greg Pak (Hulk) that are writing the **** out of comic books (literally and figuratively). Artists like Tim Sale, Bryan Hitch, John Cassady, and Kubert and to a lesser degree Ed McGuinness and John Romita, Jr (I put him in the "lesser degree category because I don't care for him, tho' others rave about his work) are setting new standards as pencillers.

We're in a very bright time for enjoying comic books.

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America cannot have an empire abroad and a Republic at home.

Pariah

I like Jim Lee...a lot. But if he doesn't have the right inker, I think his stuff comes out too "sketchy." He needs a bold inker, I think. JMHO.

My favorite all-time penciller is John Byrne, but I think he suffers from some ill-fitting inkers, too. Especially today when the comics aren't printed on pulp and everything is so sharp. I like his non-inked work better than his inked work--or stuff that he inked himself, as in the Wolverie below.

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America cannot have an empire abroad and a Republic at home.

Pariah

Sanders, I want to thank you for engaging in a comic book dialoge. I love it!

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America cannot have an empire abroad and a Republic at home.

Chris_Sanders

Drawing perspective like that with a person is very difficult. That's well done.

Chris_Sanders

You are right I might be off on Liefield. I was thinking of how Spiderman's webs changed and that whole style of his webswinging really evolved. I think that was McFarland now that you have said it because of how Spawn looked.

Arizona's Finest

I don't know - I remember liking Liefeld's work with both X-Force and Youngblood.

I stopped reading comic books about 15 years ago but i was a diehard right around that 'saturation point' you speak of. But I in turn continued to follow Marvel while really liking some of the Image stuff.

I remember the first real altered reality story line I read was X-Men: Age of Apocolypse and thinking it was pretty cool. But even that was panned at the time. Seems it all went downhill from there.

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Pariah

Just red the second issue of "Red" Hulk (It's actually just "Hulk" and appears to be a second on-going title). Rick Jones ISN'T the Hulk. But, I don't think Banner is, either. This is a very good series so far with a lot of xfiles/lost type unanswered questions.

Jeph Loeb is the writer, so it should probably hold up as long as he's on it.

__________________
America cannot have an empire abroad and a Republic at home.

Brian in Mesa

I put Red Hulk as the title just to stir some discussion about it.

So far, Hulk has been good. Can't wait to see where it goes from here.