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Old September 1st, 2010, 01:29 PM   #1
Mitch
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The Turning Point for Whiz and ML


First of all, while I very much appreciate the credit I am receiving from many of you on the board...and it sure beats being smacked in the face by another bristling array of ad hominems...I'd like to iterate a few points:

1. A great deal of credit should go to all the posters this past summer who clamoured for McNabb and Campbell or other QB candidates. You took a lot of grief for it...but your instincts were right in the sense that you felt a change from ML or at least the best competition for him was in the Cardinals' best interests.

2. I don't write posts to try to be right or be more right than anyone else (obviously...I went out on a long limb for Brian St. Pierre and I have many of you to remind me of it every time I write a post!).

3. The point is we can all be right every now and then. This is not a competition. I think we would all agree we'd rather be wrong and watch the Cardinals win...wouldn't we?

4. And I would be remiss if I didn't offer kudos to all of you who so passionately and loyally stuck to your belief in ML. You had a great deal of opposition from the national media and the rest of the football world who have basically written ML off...and many of them did long ago. You are true Cardinals fans and I tip my hat to you!

I, like you, was in awe of ML's performance on MNF as a rookie, and felt that we had finally found our QBOF.

But, through time I soured on him to the point where last year I cringed when he came into the games. I thought he showed very little spirit, no moxie and questionable skills.

The greatest sticking point with me going into this season was ML's contract. The last thing I wanted to see happen was a whole year dedicated to him, at the expense of grooming others, for the purpose of him getting released and pulling an Antrel Rolle.

That would be a wasted year at the QB postion.

The only scenario where I could accept one good year from ML was if he could take us back to the Super Bowl. But..the only way that would happen is for us to score 28 points per game again and improve significantly on defense. I could not see 28 points per game from Matt, not with as conservatively as he plays and not with his physical limitations. I think the 10 points he generated at Tennessee in his one start last year, playing conservative turnover-free football is what might happen more often than not. And that isn't going to get the Cardinals anywhere near the Lombardi.

I think the turning point for Whiz---once and for all---was at the Red & White scrimmage this year. If you recall, who were the two QBs who stood out and directed the offense to TDs?

Anderson & Hall.

This is what Whiz was referring to when he said, "it's not just stats...we take all the practices into consideration..."

At the Red & White ML was off the mark and particularly off on his deep passes...which has been one of the major concern all along, especially in this offense.

How about the two backside 18-20 yard post passes Anderson and Hall threw on a dime to Williams and Komar respectively in the Bears game? Both were thrown 27 yards in the air on a rope and right on the money.

That pass is a staple in Whiz's offense and when Whiz called it for ML versus Tennessee ML bounced it in there late five yards in front of the WR. It's a pass that with ML's arm and his longer, more fluid release is very difficult for him to complete.

The rest has been chronicled by all of us...

What encourages me about Derek Anderson is his big arm and the fact that he is being coached by Ken Whisenhunt.

Today Q and Jon Gruden talk about a QB finding the right "relationship."

There's proof in that...his name is Kurt Warner.

When Whiz arrived in AZ, few coaches if any would have felt they could revive an old horse like Warner.

Whiz did and he did so with remarkable aplomb.

How did he do it?

By recognizing the weaknesses in Warner's game and working diligently to iron them out. While the Super Bowl year was phenomenal, Warner played his best football of his career last year...he really did. Was he a fumbling machine? Was he holding onto the ball too long? Was he tentative in the red zone? Talk about ironing out the wrinkles. The Cardinals were #1 in the NFL in Red Zone %.

Warner's performance in that Packer game was the greatest single passing performance I have ever seen in all my years of watching, playing and coaching football. It was flawless...and against a very good defense...and a performance where if Warner doesn't deliver time and time again, the Cardinals would have surely lost. The pressure to deliver on each drive was enormous.

But how else did Whiz bring out the best in Warner?

Whiz also recognized that because of Warner's experience and knowledge that he (Whiz) should give Warner a good deal of the ownership of the offense...similar to the way Tom Morre does with Peyton Manning. Whiz thereby formed a highy collaborative relationship with Warner.

Can Whiz work wonders with Derek Anderson? We will see. I believe he can...but it's not going to happen over night, just as it didn't with Warner. And Anderson is still young...so Whiz is going to have to be more hands on with Anderson than he was with Warner.

Yet, one of the biggest reasons why Whiz is so excited these days is Max Hall. This kid is a mature 25 year old rookie who came in and grasped Whiz's offense like a valedictorian scoring a 5 on an AP exam after two weeks of class.

You remember how slow ML was to pick up the offense in Whiz's first year? That was hard to figure, wasn't it?...Leinart being a Heisman winner and a national champion NCAA QB playing in a so-called "pro" system?

Yet, Max Hall...who until recently wasn't getting snaps even with the second team offense...studied and learned this offense with such alacrity that even an engineer like Whiz had to sit up and take notice.

This isn't to say Whiz isn't also high on John Skelton...but Skelton is making a much bigger leap in the level of play and coaching. And like Anderson he has the size and big arm that are ideal.

With Anderson signed through next year and Hall & Skelton in the fold for three more years and most likely beyond...there's much to build on this year that can be carried over to next year and the year after.

Hey...as they say...if you are going to bring 'em...Brigham Young!
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Last edited by Mitch; September 1st, 2010 at 01:35 PM.
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Old September 1st, 2010, 01:33 PM   #2
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Excellent post Mitch!
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Old September 1st, 2010, 01:35 PM   #3
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The problem with Anderson is, no matter what Whiz tries to teach him, you can't teach accuracy. Either you have it or you don't.
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Old September 1st, 2010, 01:37 PM   #4
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Excellent post Mitch!
Thanks, MadCard.
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Old September 1st, 2010, 01:37 PM   #5
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I think the turning point for Whiz---once and for all---was at the Red & White scrimmage this year.
I think you are dead on the money. Nail in the coffin was put in much later but this may have been the point where the coffin was at least opened.
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Old September 1st, 2010, 01:38 PM   #6
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Can Whiz coach Anderson to not throw rockets to the backs out of the backfield............to learn how to put some touch on the short pass..to not throw into coverage because you think your arm can get iy past the DBs..........to not just fire away because of D-line pressure.......If Whiz can teach Anderson these things.more power to him.I really hope he can.........I remain very doubtful.
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Old September 1st, 2010, 01:41 PM   #7
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I agree. Well done Mitch!
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Old September 1st, 2010, 01:42 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Cbus cardsfan View Post
The problem with Anderson is, no matter what Whiz tries to teach him, you can't teach accuracy. Either you have it or you don't.
Why do you say that, Cbus?

You iron out the mechanics.

How come Anderson threw some passes right on the money? Most of his passes to Williams (except one) were right on the money.

Part of it is chemistry...the rest is timing and mechanics...the things that Whiz is great at teaching.

As for touch, Whiz said he's been working on it with Anderson and it already showed in once case on the TD he tossed to Beanie. Had he drilled it in to Beanie from that close, Beanie would have had no chance.

As we know there's still much progress to be made. But you can bet that they were out there working on it today in preparation for tomorrow night.

What you can't teach is arm strength.
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Old September 1st, 2010, 01:44 PM   #9
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Part of the problem is that Whis' offense sucks. Warner tried to get away from it every chance he got and both Warner and Leinart and the offense looked like crap when the base plays were being run.

Another part of the problem is that it's going to be a challenge to find another QB to mimic what Warner did to make the offense productive. The Cardinals ran 4+ WR sets like 100 more times than the 2nd place team in that category last year.

Warner fought and argued and yelled to get the offense that he liked and it eventually got molded around his strengths. Maybe Whis really likes that offense now and just wants to replace Warner. That's understandable. It goes against what I thought was going to happen, which was Whis installing "his" offense. Whatever that is at this point.

It also is unfair to Leinart. If you're not going to build around his strengths and try to square peg/round hole him into doing things he's not good at then he is being set up to fail.

This is the part that's hard for me as a fan because I thought he was doing pretty well this preseason, especially from the point of view that he would be growing each time he got out there and played.
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Old September 1st, 2010, 01:45 PM   #10
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Yet, one of the biggest reasons why Whiz is so excited these days is Max Hall. This kid is a mature 25 year old rookie who came in and grasped Whiz's offense like a valedictorian scoring a 5 on an AP exam after two weeks of class.

You remember how slow ML was to pick up the offense in Whiz's first year? That was hard to figure, wasn't it?...Leinart being a Heisman winner and a national champion NCAA QB playing in a so-called "pro" system?

Yet, Max Hall...who until recently wasn't getting snaps even with the second team offense...studied and learned this offense with such alacrity that even an engineer like Whiz had to sit up and take notice.

This isn't to say Whiz isn't also high on John Skelton...but Skelton is making a much bigger leap in the level of play and coaching. And like Anderson he has the size and big arm that are ideal.

With Anderson signed through next year and Hall & Skelton in the fold for three more years and most likely beyond...there's much to build on this year that can be carried over to next year and the year after.
I had my doubts about whether Hall was for real coming out of training camp. All that I heard was the positive reports coming out of Camp. However after watching him play in the preseason, I must say I think this kid has what it takes to make it in the NFL.

I think Halls play over the last couple of months is a big reason the Cards are willing to move forward without Leinart. I also agree that Skelton is no where near ready and probably won't be for at least 2 more years. He is just too raw and needs more time to develop.
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Old September 1st, 2010, 01:45 PM   #11
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This is one of your best posts Mitch.
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Old September 1st, 2010, 01:45 PM   #12
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Welcome back Mitch, miss your game analysis here. Love your post except the last sentence.

Do you feel that they will look for an experienced backup or just gamble and go with Hall & Skelton? There have been some posts with different names. I for one like Tyler Thigpen of the Dolphins. I believe you liked him in the past, he could be cut as they have Henne, Pennington and Pat White. But then our problem would be keeping 4 qbs on the roster as neither Hall or Skeleton would clear waivers in my opinion.
The qb situation should be clear by by Monday with cuts due.
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Old September 1st, 2010, 01:46 PM   #13
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I think you are dead on the money. Nail in the coffin was put in much later but this may have been the point where the coffin was at least opened.
also, on the Michael Thompson/Andrew Sicilliano show out here in LA, they just had one of the Cardinals play-by-play guys on and he was just roasting Matt about a ton of things the coaches apparently saw in game film which we huge mental mistakes those first two games and then went on to talk about how Matt just can't make the throws Wiz needs for his offense to work and that he's just too quick with the checkdown. Also said he looks like he's a half-second slow in his decision making. ALL of these things... things we've seen from him for three years have been there and haven't gotten better on the field. He can watch as much film and study the playbook as much as he wants, but if it doesn't translate on the field, nothing he does off it matters.

that was the jist of it.

man... this is ALL they're talking about on the radio today out in LA. Weird.
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Old September 1st, 2010, 01:46 PM   #14
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Mitch;
So you think Whiz can remake Anderson from what he has been(a strong-armed gunslinger turnover machine) into a strongarmed accurate level headed QB?
Anderson has been what he is for 4 years now........
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Old September 1st, 2010, 01:47 PM   #15
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Accuracy you can teach. Touch, much more challenging. It's like trying to teach a fastball pitcher how to throw a circle-change in mid-career. It CAN be done, but it somehow rarely is. You wouldn't want a pitcher to miss with an uncertain change-up over the plate, and you wouldn't want a QB to miss with an uncertain touch pass over a linebacker between two safeties.

I'm certain Anderson thinks throwing it as hard as he does, it's more likely to be an incompletion than an interception.
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