Holian

Is expectations and that was also the case when the Arizona Cardinals were the St. Louis Football Cardinals. In St. Louis, the baseball Cardinals are expected to win, everything about the organzation is about winning and anything less than a division championship and the fans are ready to send the manager and the general manager packing.

With the football Cardinals (either in St. Louis or in Arizona) the expectation is that they "hope" to win, that they "think" they are a playoff team and on and on excuse after excuse. You hear things like "we need more revenue to compete", "we want to change the culture", "we are building through the draft", in other words lame excuses why you continually suck year after year.

With the Football Cardinals everything has to be perfect for the team just to be competitive. No injuries, favorable schedule, blah blah blah.

With the baseball Cardinals, you make it happen even when you lose half your starting line-up (just like they did last year) and when you lose half your pitching staff (just like this year) to injuries. There are no excuses. You win or you are gone and the stadium and the city just oozes with confidence for its baseball Cardinals.

I once saw a mural in a restaurant in downtown St. Louis that just spelled out perfectly how the city of St. Louis views its baseball team. The mural showed all the professional and collegiate athletic teams in the St. Louis metropolitan area. There was a small tiny picture of the St. Louis Blues logo, a small picture of the St. Louis Billikens logo, a small picture of the St. Louis Rams and St. Louis Football Cardinals logo, and this enormous, gigantic shrine to the baseball Cardinals. The baseball Cardinals are the pride of St. Louis no matter how well the Rams do now and how the Football Cardinals did back when they were in town.

I just wish our Arizona Cardinals could some how, some way establish that same vibe. Heck, it really is amazing how the baseball Cardinals continue to win. They put a ragtag lineup out there with guys picked up off waivers, throw pitchers out there who were released by other clubs and they still win.

Why can't our Cardinals do the same???

Russ Smith

That's all true but the primary difference between the 2 is ownership. the baseball Cardinals are not the Yankees trying to buy titles but they absolutely spend money when they think it can help win(like with Rolen).

The football Cards always seem to have this feeling that "we're not one player away" anyways so they don't go after a Patrick Surtain. Just look what 2 years ago fairly widespread rumors that both Larry Johnson and LaMont Jordan were on the trading block. Was it fact, who knows, both teams to an extent denied it but both players said at the time they thought it was going to happen and they were ready for it.

With Jordan the problem was he was approaching UFA so anybody dealing was going to have to sign him before they had a good chance to really see how good he was. He appears to have gotten overpaid in Oakland, very good but not as good as they paid him. LJ is obviously outstanding. I'd be willing to bet the Cards didn't even consider trying to trade for either player even though they had the caproom because they weren't one RB away so they figured we can always draft one. Same with Surtain. So on draft day you draft Rolle and Arrington. Even if we'd just pursued and got one of those 2 guys it would have changed our draft significantly last year.

It's not necessarily CHEAP, it's that as you say the expectation isn't there they don't believe one player can make that much impact. Getting Edge was a step in the right direction but the direct result of NOT pursuing a RB earlier when several were possibly available.

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“Your expectations always exceed outside expectations. I feel like you just can’t stop working, can’t stop getting better, because I’ll be a failure in my eyes before I’m a failure in someone else’s eyes.” -- Arron Afflalo

Denny Green Fan

The baseball Cardinals are my favorite team. Maybe my football Cardinals will be winners someday.

Renz

The Cards did make an offer for Travis Henry, but were turned down by Buffalo.

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Russ Smith

True but Henry wasn't considered on the same level as either Jordan or Johnson because of his "other issues".


Just like Graves said the other day we're more than a couple of players away. That's true, but if you do sign a good player guess what, you're now one less player away.

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“Your expectations always exceed outside expectations. I feel like you just can’t stop working, can’t stop getting better, because I’ll be a failure in my eyes before I’m a failure in someone else’s eyes.” -- Arron Afflalo

Cardsmasochist

Tony LaRussa hasn't won the big one in years. So why haven't they sent him packing?

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Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. ~ Mark Twain

"It makes a difference," Whisenhunt said of the fans. "You know what? They had an effect on the game, and to me, that's the most rewarding thing."

stewdog1

Let me change that. It is a NL championship, the owners have done a good job of turning many of the fans into sheep and (pun intended) pulling the wool over their eyes. It all started during the McGwire years and the craze over the homerun ball.

The Tony is still there because they have fooled so many people into thinking he is a genious. Which he clearly is not. There this little thing called the Sphincter Clench tour.

This post can go on and on, but many of the fans in STL only see making the playoffs as being great. No longer are they the team that is second only to the Yankees in WS victories. And that's sad.

BW52

Spoken like a true Whitey Herzog lover.Must be a member of the faction.TLR has gotten the Cards in the playoffs 6 of the last 7 years.You got to get there to have a shot don`t you.Whitey QUIT.gET OVER IT.The sphincter clench tour should refer to the people who don`t have the sense to understand that now you have a additional layer of playoffs and Herzog made blunders as well.Get over it.The Cards limped into the playoffs with a injury riddled team that had only 1 starter perform up to expectations;Carpenter.
Suppan was okay.Mulder broke down,Marquis is a headcase,Ponson got cut,Reyes had rookie jitters.Rolen isns`t 100 %,Edmonds missed almost a month,Molina forgot how to hit,Eckstein was hurt and the Cards still held on to make the playoffs.You want to be pissed at someone be pissed at DeWitt for not spending more money to improve the team.

Garthshort

I'm both a baseball and football Cardinals fan. And, as such, I'm a fan of both Tony and Whitey. Different era, different style teams. I keep in mind that back in the early 80's the Yankees weren't spending so much more than the other teams, hence small market teams had a chance. Also, the baseball Cardinals didn't always have great ownership, especially prior to Gussie Busch. They (Fred Saigh and others) made the Bidwills seem like big spenders, by comparison. But they(Major League Baseball) did have a system in place, which resulted in NO player movement, and it encouraged teams not to spend money. And even Gussie Busch, with all his money, made mistakes, with Steve Carlton probably being his biggest. But the baseball Cardinals had one great big thing going for it. Branch Rickey. He was just so much more far sighted than his peers, and while he gets most credit for Jackie Robinson, as far as the Cards were concerned it was the Farm System that he helped the Cards build. They had dozens of farm teams, which ensured a steady flow of talent onto the Big Club. Even after Rickey moved to Brooklyn there was enough talent on hand to keep the team on top for a while. Ownership's decision not to sign black ball players eventually brought the team down, but not before establishing a great fan base. And it is the "history" of the two teams that has made all the difference.

stewdog1

I'm not speaking about this year only nor does what anything I wrote had anything to do with Whitey.

Duckjake

There are 30 teams in MLB. So if a different team won the World Series every year it will take 29 years for your turn to come around again. So Tony still has 12 years left to wait and the baseball Cardinals are a patient bunch.

What do you mean by this? I point this out to people all the time. It is especially useful in deflecting the conversation away from the Football Cardinals.

Being a fan of both teams is a trip. Joy in the summer and gloom in the winter. It is cool to reply to "the Cardinals suck" with "what do you mean? they're in the playoffs again."

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Forget the pay. Can the guy play.

JeffGollin

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ONE HEARTBEAT.
Later (GBR/RIP40 - RIPSKKORP)

Duckjake

The biggest difference between the Baseball and Football Cardinals. Guys go to St.Louis and start playing lights out again. Preston Wilson is just this year's example.

Guys go to Phoenix and the lights just go out.

Winning culture vs losing culture.

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Forget the pay. Can the guy play.

Holian

Amen!!! That is exactly what I was trying to get across in the post. The baseball Cardinals bring in a Hector Luna and the guy hits .300 even though he is a lifetime .250 hitter. They bring in a Preston Wilson who was laboring in Colorado and he is immediately sucessful. They bring in Dan Driesen 20 years ago, Cesar Cedeno, Will Clark (basically guys who are considered washed up) put on those beautiful Cardinal uniforms and they play like champions.

The 2006 St. Louis Cardinals went 83-78 and they are considered by most media and fans in St. Louis as having a horrible season. If the football Cardinals won more than they lost (9-7), fans would be jumping in the street.

Its all about expectations. In St. Louis there are huge expectations, with the football Cardinals there are none.

stewdog1

I mean that the owners pimp the Central Division Championships. Before all this wild card stuff, LCS and WS were the big thing. Now the Division Championships are trumping the more important things.