Sorry for another post-game thoughts thread... - Page 3

Mulli · August 8th, 2008, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arizona's Finest

Yeah but Tirico corrected him and it was pretty obvious that he moved up in the pocket well and that it was just poor oline work. He didn't really have a chance.

Tirico is not really an expert, but, good enough for me. didn't have a chance.

BigRedRage · August 8th, 2008, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moklerman

Let's back the "poise" train up for now. I've seen this on a few different posts and I don't see how it's possible to have poise in a meaningless preseason game against a bad defense that's playing soft. Leinart didn't implode or hurt his situation but the only thing that could have been taken from his performance was if he played badly. A scripted, safe, low risk gameplan is what they wanted him to run and he did.

Hightower looked impressive though.

lol, it makes as much sense as you praising warners gloves.

Russ Smith · August 8th, 2008, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donald

Jaws also said we cut Michael Pittman.

ESPN is rotting his brain.

Don't know what he was smoking, because matt moved up in the pocket and looked good, then all hell broke loose as Levi escorted a guy to matt's back.

Well did you see Pittman on the field last night?

I thought Matt stepped up and Brown just whiffed but Jaws is usually dead on.

That said he's usually dead on from watching tape from multiple angles, not live plays.

moklerman · August 8th, 2008, 12:23 PM

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lol, it makes as much sense as you praising warners gloves.

I'll bet you my $1,000 A$FN that Warner thinks they make a difference and Whisenhunt thought they did for Roethlisberger and suggested them to Warner. You suggesting that you know better than the coach of two NFL QB's?

moklerman · August 8th, 2008, 12:26 PM

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That said he's usually dead on from watching tape from multiple angles, not live plays.

I respect Jaws and think he does a good job. I would certainly consider his impressions of how a QB was playing and not diminish that opinion because he's unfamiliar with a 3rd string RB who was cut.

Russ Smith · August 8th, 2008, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moklerman

I respect Jaws and think he does a good job. I would certainly consider his impressions of how a QB was playing and not diminish that opinion because he's unfamiliar with a 3rd string RB who was cut.

I didn't. I pointed out that Jaws' reputation as an expert is built largely on his shows on ESPN where he watches films over and over from multiple angles and then explains what happened.

last night he didn't do that he watched a live play, said it was on Matt. now if he said the same thing today after watching it on film I wouldn't question him at all.

What I thought watching it live was Matt was stepping up but Brown whiffed, it was impossible for me to know if there was any safe place for Matt to unload the ball at that point. He wsa between the tackles so simply throwing it away would have been grounding, so there has to be a reasonable safe place to unload it.

I respect Jaws a lot too I just pointed out he didn't have the benefit of multiple reviews in slow motion on that one.

moklerman · August 8th, 2008, 12:56 PM

Quote:

I respect Jaws a lot too I just pointed out he didn't have the benefit of multiple reviews in slow motion on that one.

I don't think he was off base at all. He said Leinart was looking for the deep cross, his protection started to break down and a QB has to check down in that situation and look for his outlet receiver, which was James who was standing alone in the right flat, wide open. This is the exact type of play that many have chastised Warner over and it's hypocritical to consider Leinart "poised" for making the same mistake.

moklerman · August 8th, 2008, 01:02 PM

On a separate note, I'm still in the honeymoon stage of my new 73" Mitsubishi HD/DirecTV HD receiver phase of watching football. Double checking the Tivo on that Leinart sack gave me pause at just how gorgeous the setup is. Football, baseball and basketball are at an entirely higher level of enjoyment in widescreen and HD. Now, back to your regularly scheduled progam...

Mulli · August 8th, 2008, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moklerman

On a separate note, I'm still in the honeymoon stage of my new 73" Mitsubishi HD/DirecTV HD receiver phase of watching football. Double checking the Tivo on that Leinart sack gave me pause at just how gorgeous the setup is. Football, baseball and basketball are at an entirely higher level of enjoyment in widescreen and HD. Now, back to your regularly scheduled progam...

Tell the truth, how many times have you watched that play?

dreamcastrocks · August 8th, 2008, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moklerman

I don't think he was off base at all. He said Leinart was looking for the deep cross, his protection started to break down and a QB has to check down in that situation and look for his outlet receiver, which was James who was standing alone in the right flat, wide open. This is the exact type of play that many have chastised Warner over and it's hypocritical to consider Leinart "poised" for making the same mistake.

And yet others are bashing Leinart for not forcing the ball down the field into coverage like Warner does. Go figure.

Russ Smith · August 8th, 2008, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moklerman

I don't think he was off base at all. He said Leinart was looking for the deep cross, his protection started to break down and a QB has to check down in that situation and look for his outlet receiver, which was James who was standing alone in the right flat, wide open. This is the exact type of play that many have chastised Warner over and it's hypocritical to consider Leinart "poised" for making the same mistake.

My response is how do YOU know Edge was wide open? My tv doesn't show me the whole field I only see what's on camera at the moment.

That's where the announcers have the edge they can see the field and if Jaws had said Edge was wide open I wouldn't question it at all, but he didn't he just said the ball has to come out.

moklerman · August 8th, 2008, 01:41 PM

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My response is how do YOU know Edge was wide open? My tv doesn't show me the whole field I only see what's on camera at the moment.

It shows him very clearly from two different angles in the HD broadcast. To answer your previous question, I watched the play once "live"(didn't get to watch the game until I got off of work so it was still a recording) and then a little while ago just to see if my initial impression that I'd been basing my posts on was accurate. I saw and happen to agree with Jaws on this one. Leinart got focused downfield, didn't check down and had to take a sack. It wasn't a horrible play but neither was it proof of Leinart having poise in the pocket.

Quote:

And yet others are bashing Leinart for not forcing the ball down the field into coverage like Warner does. Go figure.

I'll have to take your word on that. I haven't seen anyone criticize Leinart for not forcing the ball into coverage. Getting the ball downfield more often and being more productive(TD), yes. Forcing it into coverage, no.

Russ Smith · August 8th, 2008, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moklerman

It shows him very clearly from two different angles in the HD broadcast. To answer your previous question, I watched the play once "live"(didn't get to watch the game until I got off of work so it was still a recording) and then a little while ago just to see if my initial impression that I'd been basing my posts on was accurate. I saw and happen to agree with Jaws on this one. Leinart got focused downfield, didn't check down and had to take a sack. It wasn't a horrible play but neither was it proof of Leinart having poise in the pocket.
I'll have to take your word on that. I haven't seen anyone criticize Leinart for not forcing the ball into coverage. Getting the ball downfield more often and being more productive(TD), yes. Forcing it into coverage, no.

I didn't watch in HD so I'll have to take your word for it.

I think the poise comment is obvious, a lot of QB's in that position force throws that get intercepted, like Jay Cutler over and over last year or some of the guys we've had in the past. AS Tirico said sometimes taking a sack isn't a bad thing it's best of many bad possible outcomes.

it was also encouraging to see someone get sacked and not fumble.

dreamcastrocks · August 8th, 2008, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moklerman

I'll have to take your word on that. I haven't seen anyone criticize Leinart for not forcing the ball into coverage. Getting the ball downfield more often and being more productive(TD), yes. Forcing it into coverage, no.

Now you're getting the catch-22 of it all. Warner throws it down the field more for sure. We get bashers wanting Matt to be more like Kurt. Well, throwing down the field with Kurt involves much more sacks/fumbles/interceptions than Matt.

People seem to want it both ways.

moklerman · August 8th, 2008, 01:53 PM

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AS Tirico said sometimes taking a sack isn't a bad thing it's best of many bad possible outcomes.

I agree but overall philosophy aside, this particular play could have realistically and easily had a positive outcome. I don't blame Leinart for not being at the top of his game and exhibit the awareness of Montana or Brady but the fact remains that he got tunnel vision and missed a wide open outlet receiver.

Quote:

it was also encouraging to see someone get sacked and not fumble.

See, why go there? Now I'm compelled to point out that it's encouraging to see Leinart get sacked and not be out for the year. I think it's far too easy to take potshots at either of these guys so let's stay on topic.