Kolb/Skelton splitting snaps - Page 7

52brandon · May 31st, 2012, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RugbyMuffin

Fair enough. He is my boy, but I at least try to keep it in the relm of reality.

Giving Skelton zero credit for any of the success this team had is not being realistic.

Saying 84 yard game winning drives in the 4th quarter of NFL football games doesn't mean much is going against everything this league is about in the modern day, as well.

So, I am not so out of line to question where the heck you are coming from with all this.

he also gave up 2 safeties, back to back, in that same game. And wasn't it an 84-yard game tying drive? Which led to a 99-yard game winning punt return? After a blocked FG at the end of regulation

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mainstreet

Maybe I missed it. Who is the best QB on the Cardinals team if it is not Skelton based upon performance in a Cardinals uniform?

Don't get me wrong, I would be extremely pleased if Kolb would perform well this coming season and the Cardinals would have two quality QBs in Skelton and Kolb. It would be a great position to be in. This would be the best case scenario.

57.7%, +1 TD:INT, 7.7 yds/pass, 81.1 QB rating
54.9%, -3 TD:INT, 7.0 yds/pass, 68.9 QB rating

Not by much, but based upon performance, Kolb is the best QB on the Cardinals team based upon performance in a Cardinals uniform

Phrazbit · May 31st, 2012, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 52brandon

he also gave up 2 safeties, back to back, in that same game. And wasn't it an 84-yard game tying drive? Which led to a 99-yard game winning punt return? After a blocked FG at the end of regulation

57.7%, +1 TD:INT, 7.7 yds/pass, 81.1 QB rating
54.9%, -3 TD:INT, 7.0 yds/pass, 68.9 QB rating

Not by much, but based upon performance, Kolb is the best QB on the Cardinals team based upon performance in a Cardinals uniform

As long as you are looking at it through a narrow view of box scores that does not take fumbles, sacks or situation into account then yes, Kolb was better. If you take all that other stuff... that actually happened, and factor that in, then its highly debatable.

Phrazbit · May 31st, 2012, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duckjake

There were at least 4 Cardinal wins that were set up by great plays by Larry Fitzgerald. Without him we're probably talking about how the team is going to rebound from 23 losses the last two seasons. Heck without Fitz we probably don't even make it past the first round of the playoffs in 2008.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-leS7...eature=related

That's why it's so awesome that WE have a player on offense like that. Not exactly a common occurrence the previous 15 years in Arizona.

Without Fitz do we even make the playoffs in 2008?

Duckjake · May 31st, 2012, 12:14 PM

Quote:

And wasn't it an 84-yard game tying drive? Which led to a 99-yard game winning punt return? After a blocked FG at the end of regulation

You forgot stopping Steven Jackson on 3rd and 1 at 1:54 and 4th and 1 with 1:48 left and the Rams at the Cardinals 33 yard line and the score tied 20-20.

4 things that combined changed the chemistry of the Cardinal Football Team.

52brandon · May 31st, 2012, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phrazbit

As long as you are looking at it through a narrow view of box scores that does not take fumbles, sacks or situation into account then yes, Kolb was better. If you take all that other stuff... that actually happened, and factor that in, then its highly debatable.

lol, of course it's debatable. That's why we've been debating it for 7 pages

do you know of anywhere that has more detailed stats. Like # of snaps played, and stuff like that?

52brandon · May 31st, 2012, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duckjake

You forgot stopping Steven Jackson on 3rd and 1 at 1:54 and 4th and 1 with 1:48 left and the Rams at the Cardinals 33 yard line and the score tied 20-20.

4 things that combined changed the chemistry of the Cardinal Football Team.

you definitely don't need to tell me about the improvements our D made. I'm more impressed with their performance last year than I have ever been

Zeno · May 31st, 2012, 12:32 PM

This quote from Whisenhunt pretty much tells me that Skelton is not going to have to beat out Kolb by a little but by a huge margin to be the starting QB...

Quote:

"I'll be honest with you, I obviously know how much we invested in Kevin. I want Kevin to be successful. I want him to be our quarterback but I'm not going to ignore the fact that John Skelton worked pretty hard and did a good job in there when he was playing, too. He's earned the right to compete for that spot."

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/KentSomers/163392

It's a competition but I don't know how fair it will be. Kolb will get a longer leash IMO.

Frankly I just want the best guy to win but it is really hard not to like John Skelton the person and wish him well, he just comes across as a class guy in interviews.

Phrazbit · May 31st, 2012, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 52brandon

lol, of course it's debatable. That's why we've been debating it for 7 pages

do you know of anywhere that has more detailed stats. Like # of snaps played, and stuff like that?

A non-pay site? Not off the top of my head. You might be able to dig around on NFL.com they actually have some pretty detailed splits. If you just want to add up their total passing plays obviously you can go with PA+sacks+carries and get it within a few plays.

I dont think much separates Skelton and Kolb. But because of his lack of success, injury history and looming cap figure it is extremely unlikely that Kolb will be a Cardinal in 2013. I'd rather get a better grasp on what Skelton can do now, than go through this entire debate with Skelton and (QB?) again next season.

MadCardDisease · May 31st, 2012, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duckjake

Again, I'll ask you in which games the Defense and Special Teams scored more points than our opponents?

The D held the opponents to keep the game in reach but it was the offense that put together the drives at crunch time to win. If Skelton, and Kolb vs Dallas, and the O don't score in the 4th quarter we win one game the last half of the season. We're 2-14!

The Cards with Skelton scored 67 points in the 4th quarter the last 9 games. The team had 74 but 7 of those came with Kolb at QB.

If they do that every quarter they average 33 points a game.

Week 1: An 89 yard PP punt return won that game. Defense looked crappy. Kolb looked just OK but not bad considering the shortened offseason.

Week 9: Campbell Blocks a Field Goal to Force OT. A 99 yard PP punt return in OT won that game. Defense finally started to look like they belonged on the field. Skelton had one decent drive late in the game to tie things up against the hapless Rams.

Week 10: Two early interceptions spotted the eagles an 7 point half time lead. However Skelton was able to shake off those early INTs and rally the team for a win. Impressive win for Skelton on the road considering the bad start.

Week 12: Beanie Wells owns the Rams. Cards D dominates. PP has another punt return for TD.

Week 13: Kolb returns and has a OK game, nothing special. LSH catches a 5 yard pass and turns it into an amazing 45 yard run in OT to win the game. Defense looked great.

Week 14: Cards Defense put in a bad position by Offense but hold Niners to 4 FGs in the first half (plus another missed FG). Skelton is able to rally the Cardinals late in the game.

Week 15: Cards Offense struggles against the Hapless Browns. Defense forces a fumble and gets ball on Browns 5 yard line late in the 4th. Offense loses 6 yards and Feely kicks a field goal to tie the game. PP has a huge punt return in OT and Skelton manages to do enough to get Cards within Field Goal range for a game winner by Feely.

Week 17: Another Blocked field goal by PP. Plus a big PP return to set up a field goal. Fitzgerald making one of the most incredable catches I have ever seen to set up a TD. Cards let the Hawks come back but somehow do it again in OT.

Wow. 4 OT wins. No wonder why my hair is turning gray so fast.

Duckjake · May 31st, 2012, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 52brandon

you definitely don't need to tell me about the improvements our D made. I'm more impressed with their performance last year than I have ever been

You still don't get the point.

Offense: 84 yard TD drive to tie
Defense: Stop Jackson cold and force a punt
Special Teams: Blocked FG and 99 yard punt return

An outstanding performance by the TEAM! But it appears you refuse to acknowledge the Offense's contribution simply because Skelton was the QB.

Of course if we wanted to be negative we could look at it this way:

Offense: failed to run out the clock after getting the ball with 1:41 to play.
Special Teams: allowed a 19 yard punt return instead of pinning the Rams at their 17 they get the ball on their 36.
Defense: Rams get the ball on their 36 with 51 seconds left: give up a 23 yard pass on first down and get a Pass Interference Penalty carrying an automatic first down on 3rd and 6 and let Jackson run for 8 yards with 12 seconds left to move the Rams to the Cards 24 to get in FG range.

cheesebeef · May 31st, 2012, 12:43 PM

is there any more waste of time on this site than this topic? the proof will be in the pudding in a matter of months.

52brandon · May 31st, 2012, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phrazbit

A non-pay site? Not off the top of my head. You might be able to dig around on NFL.com they actually have some pretty detailed splits. If you just want to add up their total passing plays obviously you can go with PA+sacks+carries and get it within a few plays.

I dont think much separates Skelton and Kolb. But because of his lack of success, injury history and looming cap figure it is extremely unlikely that Kolb will be a Cardinal in 2013. I'd rather get a better grasp on what Skelton can do now, than go through this entire debate with Skelton and (QB?) again next season.

We'll see I guess. I agree and am very concerned about his durability. Hopefully his new helmet helps with that. Hopefully an improved O-line and WR corps gets him blitzed/hit less too...

too optimistic? lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadCardDisease

Week 1: An 89 yard PP punt return won that game. Defense looked crappy. Kolb looked just OK but not bad considering the shortened offseason.

"just OK"? A 130 passer rating is the best we've seen in years

52brandon · May 31st, 2012, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duckjake

You still don't get the point.

Offense: 84 yard TD drive to tie
Defense: Stop Jackson cold and force a punt
Special Teams: Blocked FG and 99 yard punt return

An outstanding performance by the TEAM! But it appears you refuse to acknowledge the Offense's contribution simply because Skelton was the QB.

Of course if we wanted to be negative we could look at it this way:

Offense: failed to run out the clock after getting the ball with 1:41 to play.
Special Teams: allowed a 19 yard punt return instead of pinning the Rams at their 15 they get the ball on their 36.
Defense: Rams get the ball on their 36 with 51 seconds left: give up a 23 yard pass on first down and get a Pass Interference Penalty carrying an automatic first down on 3rd and 6 and let Jackson run for 8 yards with 12 seconds left to move the Rams to the Cards 24 to get in FG range.

our D gave up 383 yards
our O gave up 2 safeties

but the team stuck it out, busted their ass until the end, and came away with a win. There was cause for concern and for hope in that game

Duckjake · May 31st, 2012, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheesebeef

is there any more waste of time on this site than this topic? the proof will be in the pudding in a matter of months.

Waste of time? This is almost as much fun as messing with 40year in the Dansby thread.

cheesebeef · May 31st, 2012, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duckjake

Waste of time? This is almost as much fun as messing with 40year in the Dansby thread.

well... that's always fun!