Welcome to ASFN Fan Forums! We're glad to have you here. Please feel free to browse the forum. We'd like to invite you to join our community; doing so will enable you to view additional forums and post with our other members.
Registered Members don't see these ads. Register now it's free!
I know it is a great need for us but if Grimm is so great, why not get a T in the 2nd or 3rd with a mean streak and have him coached up. Even if we do get Thomas, it's not likely he will start right away and if he does he will struggle like any rookie, especially at that position.
This gives us an opportunity to get a playmaker that you cant find in later rounds.
Peterson
Adams
Branch
Landry
Registered Members don't see these ads. Register now it's free!
Why do players have to have a mean streak to be any good? Anthony Munoz was the best OT I ever saw and he did not play "mean." Neither did Art Shell. Nor did many others whose names escape me now.
Not getting on your case redheat but wasn't Deuce Lutui pretty good as a rookie? The case could be made he should have started from game 1.
What makes you so sure Thomas would struggle as a starter?
I know it is a great need for us but if Grimm is so great, why not get a T in the 2nd or 3rd with a mean streak and have him coached up. Even if we do get Thomas, it's not likely he will start right away and if he does he will struggle like any rookie, especially at that position.
As has been pointed out Grimm isn't great, he's a good coach, not great. He'll improve the run blocking but if a player isn't a good pass blocker now he likely never will be under Grimm.
I doubt if Thomas will be there when we draft/ If he is I think we have to jump on him. I think he is much more polished than Gallery was. We have to be able to do a better job protecting our QB. I must say if AP is there at 5 it will be tempting but since we have Edge and it has been pretty apparent that OL has been our problem for some time.
Remember the improvement (running and passing) that the OL showed in the final seven games, last year. That was after the line was revamped and had some time playing together. It has been said that the better OL's improve as they play together over time. As for Thomas not being able to start the season, Ferguson (Jets) and McNeill (Chargers) did, so it is possible. I doubt that we "pass" on him, but someone on the Cards board, like Peterson or Adams, might be rated ahead of Thomas and might be available at #5.
I know it is a great need for us but if Grimm is so great, why not get a T in the 2nd or 3rd with a mean streak and have him coached up. Even if we do get Thomas, it's not likely he will start right away and if he does he will struggle like any rookie, especially at that position.
This gives us an opportunity to get a playmaker that you cant find in later rounds.
When you say, pick up a tackle in the second round, who are you referring to? Ugoh? Free? Ryan Harris? Marten? Frye? (Chances that Staley or Blalock would be available for us to pick at #38 would be at best "iffy.")
To put things in perspective. Russ Grimm is supposed to be a very good line coach and has developed no-names into pretty good offensive linemen in the past.
Since he's a mere mortal, however, no doubt there were also Steeler O-line prospects we never heard about who whiffed.
My point: When you bring in a more talented player with an established past body of work, the more predictable his likelihood of success and more control Grimm & Co. have over the situation. As the established talent-level goes down, the more iffy things tend to be.
The reason the draft is more art than science is that you're dealing mainly with percentages - there are no guarantees a high-profile guy will make it or a low-profile guy won't - just the odds as each scout sees it.
If I'm representing a team who feels fixing the offensive line is a major and long neglected priority, I'd be inclined to play the percentages and draft Thomas if he's still there.
__________________
"EVERY "NEXT GAME" IS A "MUST GAME."
Later (GBR/RIP40)
I think he is much more polished than Gallery was.
Into the draft, Gallery was considered a can't miss, safe bet prospect. I was lobbying hard for him during that draft and while I have no regrets about how the draft turned out I don't feel the least bit wrong about wanting Gallery, considering what we knew about his potential at the time.
His career's not over yet but there's a big shadow over him now. Because of his performance in the NFL I'm now a little worried about Thomas, which isn't fair to Thomas seeing as they're not the same people...
but asking a Cardinal fan to be logical is a steep request.
from USA Today's scouting report:
Analysis:
Positives...Prototype lineman, with outstanding speed, superb strength and a very solid build...Broad-chested with a big waist, muscular arms, thick thighs and calves and minimal body fat (16%)...Has big muscle development in his chest and arms, with a good bubble, big quadriceps and calves...Gets off the line well to quickly gain advantage, showing a sudden burst and light feet to immediately react to any movement as he comes off the snap...Combines muscle mass, strength and quickness to generate explosive blocking ability...Shows a powerful hand punch and can open his hips to move down the line when pulling...Able to cover defenders up with his size and long arms, showing good knee bend to gain leverage...Comes off the ball with a sudden burst, showing the leg drive, wide base and balance to stay on his feet and sustain blocks...Plays smart and with patience in pass protection, sinking his hips and sliding his feet properly to seal off the edge...Has outstanding ability to play in the open, as he smothers linebacker up to move on to the next defender...Looks fluid with above average feet adjustments when making contact...Has excellent body control for a player his size, showing great ease-of-movement to make blocks in space...Has the hand jolt needed to knock defenders off balance and consistently follows through to finish...Despite his size, he's nimble enough to pick up the blitz and stunts...Able to get into the second level, where he engulfs and flattens defenders while making contact in the open field...Stabs and punches with excellent hand position inside and shows explosion when initially engaging the defender...Can stun defenders with his hand jolt and is learning the proper technique of grabbing his opponent out of sight of the referee...Can shuffle, slide and stay square in pass protection, showing excellent recovery agility when beaten...Humble character who is highly motivated and called by the coaching staff, "the most respected athlete the program ever had."
Negatives...Needs to show more awareness of the offensive guard, as his teammate seems to get in the way when trying to pull for the outside rush...Patient, but will over-extend, compensating with his ability to recover and finish off his blocks...Because of his height and girth, he does not always sink his pads properly, but his quick feet more than compensates, allowing him to mirror the edge rushers.
Agility tests: 4.98 in the 40-yard dash...456-pound bench press...Bench presses 225 pounds 24 times... 620-pound squat...382-pound power clean...31-inch vertical jump...4.38 20-yard shuttle... 7.43 three-cone drill...32 1/4-inch arm length...9 1/4-inch hands...Ambidextrous...23/35 Wonderlic score.
Negatives...Needs to show more awareness of the offensive guard, as his teammate seems to get in the way when trying to pull for the outside rush...Patient, but will over-extend, compensating with his ability to recover and finish off his blocks...Because of his height and girth, he does not always sink his pads properly, but his quick feet more than compensates, allowing him to mirror the edge rushers.
And evidently, coaching hasn't helped Gallery with these shortcomings.
If I'm representing a team who feels fixing the offensive line is a major and long neglected priority, I'd be inclined to play the percentages and draft Thomas if he's still there.[/quote]
All oustanding points. The peanut gallery should keep these ponts in their data base. I feel the most important point is that an OL gets better and better the longer they play together. This has proven out over time. Start thinking of the Packers of the late 60's and go on from there. You willl count a whole load of great lines that stayed in tact. The next group was the Cowboy lines of the 70's.
To put things in perspective. Russ Grimm is supposed to be a very good line coach and has developed no-names into pretty good offensive linemen in the past.
Who? I've pointed this out before, but 4 of the Steelers' starting 5 OL last season were first day picks, and three of them were 1st round picks. People keep asserting this, but no Steeler OL has gone on to success with another franchise, and the one we picked up turned out to stink.
Who? I've pointed this out before, but 4 of the Steelers' starting 5 OL last season were first day picks, and three of them were 1st round picks. People keep asserting this, but no Steeler OL has gone on to success with another franchise, and the one we picked up turned out to stink.
It would, since you're an apologist for the front office. But an actually good OL coach takes players that are low-round picks or less highly regarded free agents and turns them into a dominant unit, as Alex Gibbs was able to do with the Broncos and Falcons and Matt Mauck did with the Chargers and--with less success--the Dolphins.
Maybe Grimm can do a great job with other teams' castoffs and second-day picks with the Arizona Cardinals, but no one should pretend like he's done it before.
Linear Mode
