Cardinals need to make a push for Mike Wallace

the_future23 · February 17th, 2012, 10:19 AM

Ya ya ya, another Steeler. But dude is a straight burner. He has speed and would compliment Fitz perfectly. A deep ball threat that can outrun anyone.

kerouac9 · February 17th, 2012, 10:28 AM

Why have a draft at all? If he's given the first-round tender, we'd have to pay him $25 million guaranteed (maybe more) plus give up the first round pick.

Someone might be dumb enough to sign him to an offer sheet (Tampa? Cleveland?), but they'd have to be creative to create a deal that Pittsburgh wouldn't/couldn't match.

Pariah · February 17th, 2012, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerouac9

Someone might be dumb enough to sign him to an offer sheet

I don't think he's for us, but I wonder why you think a team would have to be "dumb" to try. He's certainly worth a first rounder and a ton of money, IMO.

Folster · February 17th, 2012, 10:52 AM

I think we'd be better served setting our sights on a receiver like Pierre Garcon.

Pariah · February 17th, 2012, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Folster

I think we'd be better served setting our sights on a receiver like Pierre Garcon.

Since our front office seems incapable of focusing on more than one thing at a time, I'd rather not go after a WR at all this offseason.

Short of that, if I had my druthers, I'd take a good long look at Manningham.

kerouac9 · February 17th, 2012, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pariah

I don't think he's for us, but I wonder why you think a team would have to be "dumb" to try. He's certainly worth a first rounder and a ton of money, IMO.

A first-rounder and a ton of money? Really? Under the new CBA, where someone like Blackmon is going to get paid like $8 million over 4 years? I think you're overestimating Mike Wallace.

Wallace is a very good player in the Steelers' offense, but it's in the Steelers' offense with Ben Roethlisberger delivering him the ball. I've gone over before how difficult it is to predict how a receivers' skills are going to translate across franchises.

Randy Moss went from Minnesota to Oakland for a first-rounder and a ton of money, and was a huge bust for them. Do you think that Wallace is of similar skill to Randy Moss?

Pariah · February 17th, 2012, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerouac9

Do you think that Wallace is of similar skill to Randy Moss?

"Similar?" Yes. Same raw-talent caibre? No. Of course there's risk--there's always risk. But Moss to Oakland isn't quite a fair comparison. Moss has always been an all-world talent with all-world attitude. We all know Moss dogged it pretty spectacularly in Oakland. Maybe you see a drop off in Wallace's production outside of Pittsburgh (or maybe you don't), but I think the chances of him falling off the map like Moss did are pretty remote.

Despite how much of a sure-thing players might seem coming out of college, you don't know if they'll take the next step to becoming a star in the pros. You pay a premium for that when getting e veteran NFL star in his prime.

So, yes, if I were a team that needed a no. 1 WR I'd pay the first and a big-time contract and assume the risk that he might not be as good.

JMHO

kerouac9 · February 17th, 2012, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pariah

"Similar?" Yes. Same raw-talent caibre? No. Of course there's risk--there's always risk. But Moss to Oakland isn't quite a fair comparison. Moss has always been an all-world talent with all-world attitude. We all know Moss dogged it pretty spectacularly in Oakland. Maybe you see a drop off in Wallace's production outside of Pittsburgh (or maybe you don't), but I think the chances of him falling off the map like Moss did are pretty remote.

Despite how much of a sure-thing players might seem coming out of college, you don't know if they'll take the next step to becoming a star in the pros. You pay a premium for that when getting e veteran NFL star in his prime.

So, yes, if I were a team that needed a no. 1 WR I'd pay the first and a big-time contract and assume the risk that he might not be as good.

JMHO

Pariah, can you think of a single instance of a high-profile WR changing teams and it working out? I'm not talking about Wes Welker leaving for a second- and fourth-round pick, I mean a pro bowl caliber WR changing teams for a big contract and it working out.

Two teams tried to do it with Joey Galloway and both walked away with regrets.

When the best-case scenario is Mushin Muhammad with the Bears, I hope that some team does it, and it's another team in the NFC West.

Pariah · February 17th, 2012, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerouac9

Pariah, can you think of a single instance of a high-profile WR changing teams and it working out?

To be honest with you, I can't think of that many instances when a team lets a star WR (in his prime and without issues) walk.

Boldin left AZ and hasn't fallen off a cliff.

Marshall left Denver, and for all his mental issues still caught, what?, 90 balls this year? With garbage at QB, too.

I think there's a pretty small sample to look at when it comes to "star" WRs changing teams, and that speaks to just how hard a player like Wallace is to come by.

Again, JMHO. I understand why someone wouldn't want to make the investment. But I also think that a first-round pick is a crap-shoot and seeing a body of work in the NFL helps mitigate the risks.

BEERZ · February 17th, 2012, 01:42 PM

Wallace would be great. But this teams needs all its draft picks if its going to improve. Garcon makes more sense to me.

Duckjake · February 17th, 2012, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pariah

To be honest with you, I can't think of that many instances when a team lets a star WR (in his prime and without issues) walk.

Boldin left AZ and hasn't fallen off a cliff.

Marshall left Denver, and for all his mental issues still caught, what?, 90 balls this year? With garbage at QB, too.

I think there's a pretty small sample to look at when it comes to "star" WRs changing teams, and that speaks to just how hard a player like Wallace is to come by.

Again, JMHO. I understand why someone wouldn't want to make the investment. But I also think that a first-round pick is a crap-shoot and seeing a body of work in the NFL helps mitigate the risks.

Well said. K9 is just off his rocker when it comes to Wide Receivers. It's hilarious how many times we've heard since the SB how many QBs are struggling because they don't have any weapons.

What I would ask though is what team has ever picked up a restricted free agent for a first round pick and a huge salary? I don't think its ever happened.

52brandon · February 17th, 2012, 02:53 PM

I think Wallace would be too expensive. But Manningham I think would be our ideal #2 WR. Jackson and Wallace are both #1 WRs for most teams and will expect #1 money

kerouac9 · February 17th, 2012, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pariah

To be honest with you, I can't think of that many instances when a team lets a star WR (in his prime and without issues) walk.

Boldin left AZ and hasn't fallen off a cliff.

Marshall left Denver, and for all his mental issues still caught, what?, 90 balls this year? With garbage at QB, too.

I think there's a pretty small sample to look at when it comes to "star" WRs changing teams, and that speaks to just how hard a player like Wallace is to come by.

Again, JMHO. I understand why someone wouldn't want to make the investment. But I also think that a first-round pick is a crap-shoot and seeing a body of work in the NFL helps mitigate the risks.

Um... check the stats. Boldin hasn't been anything like the player he was in Arizona since he moved to B-more. But I'll give you a quick list off the top of my head, and you can tell me if you want to join this club:

Joey Galloway from Carolina to Seattle and then Dallas and finally Tampa Bay
Plaxico Burress from Pittsburgh to New York Giants
Santonio Holmes from Pittsburgh to New York Jets
Mushin Muhammad from Carolina to Chicago
Deion Branch from New England to Seattle
T.J. Houshmanzadeh from Cincy to Seattle
Jerry Rice from San Francisco to Oakland and then Seattle
Javon Walker from Green Bay to Denver and then Oakland (I think--it may have been the other way around)
Terrell Owens from San Francisco to Philly and then Dallas
David Boston from Arizona to San Diego
Sydney Rice from Minnesota to Seattle
Brandon Marshall from Denver to Miami
Az-Zahir Hakim from St. Louis to... Detroit, I think?
Antwaan Randle-El from Pittsburgh to Washington
Terry Glenn from New England to Dallas
Derrick Mason from Tennessee to Baltimore

Those are all the high- to medium-profile WR movements that I can remember from the past decade or so.

Duckjake · February 17th, 2012, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Terrell Owens from San Francisco to Philly and then Dallas

1200 yards and 14 TDs and first team all-pro in Philly in 2004. 3,578 yards and 38 TDs in 3 seasons in Dallas. In his 30's. Yeah that sucks.

Quote:

Jerry Rice from San Francisco to Oakland and then Seattle

1200 yards and 7 TDs and pro bowl for Oakland in 2002. At age 40! That sucks too. Rice was 42 when he played for Seattle.

Quote:

Javon Walker from Green Bay to Denver and then Oakland (I think--it may have been the other way around)

Javon Walker had one good season in Green Bay. That's medium to high profile? He still had over 1000 yards for only the 2nd time in his career in Denver with Jake Plummer as QB.

Quote:

Joey Galloway from Carolina to Seattle and then Dallas and finally Tampa Bay

Galloway never played for Carolina. But he had over 3300 yards and 23 TDs his first 3 seasons in Tampa in his 30s. That sucks.

Those are 4 of the first 5 guys I checked. I also checked David Boston. That was a stupid move by SD. Because Boston had already lost his mind while still in Arizona.

kerouac9 · February 17th, 2012, 08:48 PM

That's right; Galloway started his career in Seattle. Dallas gave up two first round picks for him on the Franchise tag. Scored 11 TDs for them in four seasons for the favor.

I didn't include only moves that supported my case. I put all the ones that I could remember together.

And, yes, Javon Walker was a massively high profile move when it was made. Dude gained nearly 1400 yards receiving and scored 12 TDs his first season as a starter(!!!!!). Held out the next year and tore up his knee the first day back.

So if you can locate two unmitigated success stories (and those guys had much longer track records than Wallace does when they left their original teams).

Of course, that first season with Philly was far below his previous four-year average in receptions and yards, but don't post anything that might dispute your firmly held opinion that receivers are movable parts.