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Old March 4th, 2008, 05:54 PM   #1
Zeno
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I've never been more on the fence.


I'm a registered independent, always have been but I tend to vote more Democrat than Republican but I always like to weigh the individual candidates on their policies more than their party affiliation.

This race I have no idea who I support, none of the candidates overwhelm me, they all have their share of flaws and each has a strength.

I do have a large amount of respect for John McCain--he's a decorated veteran, didn't dodge military service when he could have as the son & grandson of Admirals, he could have rode a desk rather than been a combat aviator, his youngest son is an enlisted Marine and he never uses him for political gain, one of his other sons is at the Naval Academy--he has a vested interest in the state of our military and more so than any of the other candidates he gives me faith in any decisions he were to make with the military.

Then comes the economy...I have zero faith in his economic plans--as far as I know he's never even laid out a concrete plan almost as if its an afterthought. I don't favor the bail outs for homeowners that the Dem's propose either. Why should we pay for other irresponsible Americans who spent beyond their means? Mortgage companies are just as much at fault as they loaned money to people who in no way should have qualified. Those of us that were responsible enough to live within our means should not be penalized.

Then comes immigration--none of the candidates to take the approach this country needs for fear of alienatiing the hispanic vote, our border is a problem, we have Agents getting shot at, run over, rocked and we have criminals sneaking across our border everyday. The southern border needs to be fixed and fast..we have enough criminals and free loaders in America already we can't afford to take in anymore. I'm not against legal immigration that requires a process of petition for entry and a formal background check for potential immigrants...I just don't want us to inherit Mexico's problems.

As for universal health care...thats low down on my list of priorities.

Obama to me represents a change from the old guard of politician, he looks to be motivated and genuine when it comes to wanting to make a difference. I do believe he will have to surround himself with people who have more experience in areas that he lacks.

The biggest plus to me with Clinton is that her husband IMO was the best president of my lifetime. Unfortunately the vote isn't for Bill its for Hillary and for all the talk of experience, she was the First Lady not the head of the administration. A huge benefit is that she'll have the same pool of talent to draw from that Clinton did...although I hope she goes a different direction than her husband did when it came to the military and intelligence services.

I also have my doubts about a candidate as old as McCain, and if anyone has seen him in person away from cameras and without the make up he does not look like a healthy man.

I'd really like people to lay out who is the strongest when it comes to the economy?

Who has the best and most realistic approach to immigration?

I already believe McCain is the best choice to lead our military. Obama and Clinton's lack of military experience doesn't make this point arguable in my opinion.

I've tried to do my own research but it still leaves me with a bunch of question marks.

I know my single vote won't make a difference but can everyone make a case for their candidate without speaking bad of the other candidates?

WHO SHOULD I VOTE FOR??????
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Old March 4th, 2008, 06:08 PM   #2
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Zeno. Nicely put. Thanks for taking the time.

Millions of us are facing the same puzzling choices.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 06:10 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Zeno View Post
can everyone make a case for their candidate without speaking bad of the other candidates?
Great post!

Good luck on the quoted.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 06:21 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeno View Post
I don't favor the bail outs for homeowners that the Dem's propose either. Why should we pay for other irresponsible Americans who spent beyond their means? Mortgage companies are just as much at fault as they loaned money to people who in no way should have qualified. Those of us that were responsible enough to live within our means should not be penalized.
This is all fine and good until it becomes a macroeconomic problem, which it has. Theoretically, if we don't stem the blood loss, it's not out of the realm of possibility to have a global economic collapse. The banking system is on the ropes, and our very existence is based on the relative health of the banking system. Right now the flow of money into our economy is almost at a standstill because banks are hording cash to pay off their massive debts. If we don't get that money flowing back into the economy in the form of small business loans and home loans, the whole system will collapse on itself.

We're going to pay for it somehow. The question is whether or not there's a way to pay some now rather than buying the farm later.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 07:26 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeno View Post
I'm a registered independent, always have been but I tend to vote more Democrat than Republican but I always like to weigh the individual candidates on their policies more than their party affiliation.

This race I have no idea who I support, none of the candidates overwhelm me, they all have their share of flaws and each has a strength.

I do have a large amount of respect for John McCain--he's a decorated veteran, didn't dodge military service when he could have as the son & grandson of Admirals, he could have rode a desk rather than been a combat aviator, his youngest son is an enlisted Marine and he never uses him for political gain, one of his other sons is at the Naval Academy--he has a vested interest in the state of our military and more so than any of the other candidates he gives me faith in any decisions he were to make with the military.

Then comes the economy...I have zero faith in his economic plans--as far as I know he's never even laid out a concrete plan almost as if its an afterthought. I don't favor the bail outs for homeowners that the Dem's propose either. Why should we pay for other irresponsible Americans who spent beyond their means? Mortgage companies are just as much at fault as they loaned money to people who in no way should have qualified. Those of us that were responsible enough to live within our means should not be penalized.

Then comes immigration--none of the candidates to take the approach this country needs for fear of alienatiing the hispanic vote, our border is a problem, we have Agents getting shot at, run over, rocked and we have criminals sneaking across our border everyday. The southern border needs to be fixed and fast..we have enough criminals and free loaders in America already we can't afford to take in anymore. I'm not against legal immigration that requires a process of petition for entry and a formal background check for potential immigrants...I just don't want us to inherit Mexico's problems.

As for universal health care...thats low down on my list of priorities.

Obama to me represents a change from the old guard of politician, he looks to be motivated and genuine when it comes to wanting to make a difference. I do believe he will have to surround himself with people who have more experience in areas that he lacks.

The biggest plus to me with Clinton is that her husband IMO was the best president of my lifetime. Unfortunately the vote isn't for Bill its for Hillary and for all the talk of experience, she was the First Lady not the head of the administration. A huge benefit is that she'll have the same pool of talent to draw from that Clinton did...although I hope she goes a different direction than her husband did when it came to the military and intelligence services.

I also have my doubts about a candidate as old as McCain, and if anyone has seen him in person away from cameras and without the make up he does not look like a healthy man.

I'd really like people to lay out who is the strongest when it comes to the economy?

Who has the best and most realistic approach to immigration?

I already believe McCain is the best choice to lead our military. Obama and Clinton's lack of military experience doesn't make this point arguable in my opinion.

I've tried to do my own research but it still leaves me with a bunch of question marks.

I know my single vote won't make a difference but can everyone make a case for their candidate without speaking bad of the other candidates?

WHO SHOULD I VOTE FOR??????
QFT.

Let me know if you get the answer - I think many of us are wondering the same thing...
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Old March 4th, 2008, 07:47 PM   #6
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If the only thing McCain has going strongly in his favor is military, then he should be running for Secretary of Defense. His economic ideas are appalling and will do nothing to get us seriously competitive again. I prefer Obama's incremental, incentive-based approach along with serious tightening up on the financial sector's risky behaviors and conflicts of interest, etc.

I think Obama will start us seriously (finally) on the hard long path towards energy independence (with conservation and alternative fuels), and I don't believe McCain will do squat. Not sure it's one of Hillary's priorities from what I've heard her say.

The only one I've really heard talk hard talk about our educational system, which is falling further and further behind, or talk about infrastructure investment and R and D is Obama, and I consider all three of those things very important to our economy AND our security.

Hillary and Bill have Saudi/Gulf royalty ties just a bit less tight than the Bushes (or Carter, for that matter!). I like that Obama (apparently) does not.

They are all pretty much a wash on immigration.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 10:08 PM   #7
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This should be an "ABM" election: Anybody But McCain. If you like Georgie Porgie, you'll love McCain. Remember, being a combat veteran and former POW has absolutely nothing to do with running our military.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 03:51 AM   #8
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This should be an "ABM" election: Anybody But McCain. If you like Georgie Porgie, you'll love McCain. Remember, being a combat veteran and former POW has absolutely nothing to do with running our military.
It has almost everything to with understanding how the military operates. I'd much more trust his judgement on military matters over someone who never wore a uniform in the service of the country.

JFK once said "A young man who does not have what it takes to perform military service is not likely to have what it takes to make a living."

He very easily could have said a man who never served military service will never know what it means to give or take orders and the consequences of those orders.

Like I said that is (IMO)McCains biggest asset over either Obama or Clinton, neither served in any capacity...let alone during a time of war. If the nation wasn't currently at war it wouldn't matter as much to me. As someone else said though it might make McCain more qualified to be secretary of defense.

McCains lack of an economic plan scares me though...

The Dems seem to focus more on health care than anything else--thats what I gathered from the last debate, about a 3rd of it was their healthcare plans--not a big priority to me. It did nothing for me to favor one over the other.

This may all boil down to running mates and what names are associated with possible cabinet positions.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 04:30 AM   #9
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Keep one thought in mind on McCain.

He is crazier than a crap house rat.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 04:35 AM   #10
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JFK once said "A young man who does not have what it takes to perform military service is not likely to have what it takes to make a living."
He also said;

Quote:
Mankind must put an end to war before war puts an end to mankind.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 07:07 AM   #11
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So those of you who cite McCain's military experience as a major plus in this time of war - you all voted for Kerry in 2004, then, correct?
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Old March 5th, 2008, 07:09 AM   #12
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It has almost everything to with understanding how the military operates. I'd much more trust his judgment on military matters over someone who never wore a uniform in the service of the country.

JFK once said "A young man who does not have what it takes to perform military service is not likely to have what it takes to make a living."

He very easily could have said a man who never served military service will never know what it means to give or take orders and the consequences of those orders.

Like I said that is (IMO)McCain's biggest asset over either Obama or Clinton, neither served in any capacity...let alone during a time of war. If the nation wasn't currently at war it wouldn't matter as much to me. As someone else said though it might make McCain more qualified to be secretary of defense.

McCains lack of an economic plan scares me though...

The Dems seem to focus more on health care than anything else--thats what I gathered from the last debate, about a 3rd of it was their healthcare plans--not a big priority to me. It did nothing for me to favor one over the other.

This may all boil down to running mates and what names are associated with possible cabinet positions.
Sorry.... You simply are incorrect. I spent 7 years in the military, virtually all of it in military intelligence (NSA, USAFSS) and outside of a few things an average person could learn in a week, I'm no more qualified to run the US military than an average banker is.

I'm not minimizing his military service. But saying McCain is more qualified to run the military because of his service is like saying I'm qualified to run Microsoft because I've written some computer programs.

And even if being shot down qualifies him to run the military, then I have to take Zenny's view of, "If the only thing McCain has going strongly in his favor is military, then he should be running for Secretary of Defense."

Besides... with lobbyists virtually controlling his campaign, I would have strong concerns about him falling into the "Eisenhower warning (beware the military/industrial complex)."
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Old March 5th, 2008, 07:43 AM   #13
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Wally and I agree -- I have to say, the reams and reams and reams of research I've done in the past 3 years on PTSD in POWs and torture victims, and looking at McCain -- sorry, but that's not a 'qualification' -- it is a distinct mental health liability, especially as the person gets old.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 08:14 AM   #14
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I already believe McCain is the best choice to lead our military. Obama and Clinton's lack of military experience doesn't make this point arguable in my opinion.


Anyone who thinks/believes that we may be in Iraq for another 100 years does not make them the best choice to lead our military.

Look at it this way, we have been in Iraq, longer than we were in World War 2, and will be looking at Vietnam war lengths before we know it, with not much progress to show for it.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 09:29 AM   #15
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So those of you who cite McCain's military experience as a major plus in this time of war - you all voted for Kerry in 2004, then, correct?
Well, I know I did..and I voted for Gore before that.
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