Enjoy an Ads-Free ASFN - lighter and faster too! Become an ASFN-Contributor and help support the site.
Go Back   Arizona Sports Fans Network > Other Stuff > Politics and Religion > 2008 Presidential Election

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old June 3rd, 2007, 01:55 PM   #1
Absolute Zero
Registered User
 

Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,108

Hillary's War: A must read


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/29/ma...ne&oref=slogin

Why we'd want to put anyone in the White House who didn't even bother to read the 90 page National Intelligence Estimate (only 6 Senators did) which raised doubts about the WMD issues, towed the "stay the course" line and even repeated this phrase for so long, made the same Sadam and A-Q link as Dick Cheney, and voted against an amendment to the war authorization that would have required additional diplomacy is beyond me.

Don't we need a President who can do his own homework, actually read the reports and made their own independent decision? Don't we need someone with foresight who saw this was a mistake back in 2002? If we are trying to get rid of Bush's failures, why elect someone who shared in them?
Enjoy an Ads-Free ASFN - lighter and faster too! Become an ASFN-Contributor and help support the site.
__________________
http://outsidethewalls.com/
Absolute Zero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3rd, 2007, 01:58 PM   #2
Divide Et Impera
Registered User
 
Divide Et Impera's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Maricopa, AZ
Posts: 13,790
Obama, baby!!!
__________________
Quintus: People should know when they are conquered.

Maximus: Would you, Quintus? Would I?
Divide Et Impera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3rd, 2007, 08:52 PM   #3
Absolute Zero
Registered User
 

Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,108
Did you see how WolfB picked up on this right away in the debate tonight by twice asking Hillary if she regretted not reading the NIE estimate? She dodged, then he confirmed with Edwards that he didn't read it either. Then Barack comes in and says it was a very important report since at least one Senator cited the report in voting against the war authorization. That was awesome. Hillary looked so pissed!
__________________
http://outsidethewalls.com/
Absolute Zero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3rd, 2007, 09:02 PM   #4
Absolute Zero
Registered User
 

Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,108
Here's the vid of what I was talking about: http://video.msn.com/v/us/msnbc.htm?...d/18296908/&fg=
__________________
http://outsidethewalls.com/
Absolute Zero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3rd, 2007, 09:03 PM   #5
82CardsGrad
7 x 70
 
82CardsGrad's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Scottsdale
Posts: 19,742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolute Zero View Post
Did you see how WolfB picked up on this right away in the debate tonight by twice asking Hillary if she regretted not reading the NIE estimate? She dodged, then he confirmed with Edwards that he didn't read it either. Then Barack comes in and says it was a very important report since at least one Senator cited the report in voting against the war authorization. That was awesome. Hillary looked so pissed!

This is of course all based on the assumption that had Obama been a US Senator at the time, he would've made it 7 senators that read the NIE, right??

Just saying...
82CardsGrad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 4th, 2007, 10:44 AM   #6
RedStorm
Next NY Gov
 
RedStorm's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2002
Location: Gilbert
Posts: 9,513
Quote:
Originally Posted by 82CardsGrad View Post
This is of course all based on the assumption that had Obama been a US Senator at the time, he would've made it 7 senators that read the NIE, right??

Just saying...
Exactly.
__________________
Yeah, Stormy's probably on to something. - Rivercard

Sense MAKER!!!
Blasphemer!!!
Burn him!!!!

He speaks in tongues of logic and common sense, this troubles us and must be dealt with swiftly. - conraddobler
RedStorm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 4th, 2007, 02:45 PM   #7
Absolute Zero
Registered User
 

Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,108
Quote:
Originally Posted by 82CardsGrad View Post
This is of course all based on the assumption that had Obama been a US Senator at the time, he would've made it 7 senators that read the NIE, right??

Just saying...
No, he got it right in 2002 without even reading it.

Hillary, not only got it wrong, but she also failed to do her homework and failed to read the most critical report on the most important vote in her life. That's not presidential material folks.
__________________
http://outsidethewalls.com/
Absolute Zero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 4th, 2007, 02:50 PM   #8
Divide Et Impera
Registered User
 
Divide Et Impera's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Maricopa, AZ
Posts: 13,790


Trying to cast a shadow of doubt based solely on pure speculation when there are verifiable facts to the contrary?!?!?!?

__________________
Quintus: People should know when they are conquered.

Maximus: Would you, Quintus? Would I?
Divide Et Impera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 7th, 2007, 06:52 AM   #9
AZZenny
Registered User
 

Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cave Creek
Posts: 9,101
Send a message via AIM to AZZenny
I was stunned -- a very down-to-earth friend of mine who is the most politically-informed person I know personally met Hillary -- sat near her at a dinner recently -- and was (to his own considerable surprise) pretty much won over. 'Brilliant, articulate, persuasive, and tough as nails. We totally got the wrong Clinton the first time.'

I said "She's too hard, too divisive."

He said, "You haven't met her or heard her up close. She's got surprising personal charm and grace -- she's not divisive, she's decisive.

"And you don't think we're going to need someone really, really tough in the next administration? Because between the GOP and the religious right and China and Putin and Iran and the EU and corporate interests; between climate change, the dollar, the deficit, Iraq War, health care, education, infrastructure, and terrorist encroachment, I think we're going to need someone willing to make some incredibly hard decisions, and who will finally tell the population they have to share in a tough time of transition. She's the first politician I've met I think could and would do that."

He likes Obama, but says he's just too damn green and unconnected for the monstrous job up ahead, and therefore politically, Obama is just a Democrat's pipe dream. He also said 'McCain seems to get it, too, and he would be tough enough -- other than being too old, slightly insane, and suddenly sucking up to constituencies he despises.'
__________________
"The power of the State looks real different when you're on the other side of the bayonet." Chris Hayes
AZZenny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2007, 10:48 AM   #10
conraddobler
I want my 2$
 
conraddobler's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 18,548
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZZenny View Post
I was stunned -- a very down-to-earth friend of mine who is the most politically-informed person I know personally met Hillary -- sat near her at a dinner recently -- and was (to his own considerable surprise) pretty much won over. 'Brilliant, articulate, persuasive, and tough as nails. We totally got the wrong Clinton the first time.'

I said "She's too hard, too divisive."

He said, "You haven't met her or heard her up close. She's got surprising personal charm and grace -- she's not divisive, she's decisive.

"And you don't think we're going to need someone really, really tough in the next administration? Because between the GOP and the religious right and China and Putin and Iran and the EU and corporate interests; between climate change, the dollar, the deficit, Iraq War, health care, education, infrastructure, and terrorist encroachment, I think we're going to need someone willing to make some incredibly hard decisions, and who will finally tell the population they have to share in a tough time of transition. She's the first politician I've met I think could and would do that."

He likes Obama, but says he's just too damn green and unconnected for the monstrous job up ahead, and therefore politically, Obama is just a Democrat's pipe dream. He also said 'McCain seems to get it, too, and he would be tough enough -- other than being too old, slightly insane, and suddenly sucking up to constituencies he despises.'

Hillary's got a lot of winning over to do, oh wait there isn't any other decent choice...........

I'd vote for McCain between him and Hillary but that's it so whoever the Dems nominate vs anyone but McCain who is crazy and he is sucking up but just to win, then I'm stuck with the Dem, unless Ron Paul would be nominated but that's just not going to happen.
__________________
When written in Chinese, the word "crisis" is composed of two characters. One represents danger and the other represents opportunity. John F. Kennedy
conraddobler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2007, 02:04 PM   #11
Absolute Zero
Registered User
 

Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,108
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZZenny View Post
I was stunned -- a very down-to-earth friend of mine who is the most politically-informed person I know personally met Hillary -- sat near her at a dinner recently -- and was (to his own considerable surprise) pretty much won over. 'Brilliant, articulate, persuasive, and tough as nails. We totally got the wrong Clinton the first time.'

I said "She's too hard, too divisive."

He said, "You haven't met her or heard her up close. She's got surprising personal charm and grace -- she's not divisive, she's decisive.

"And you don't think we're going to need someone really, really tough in the next administration? Because between the GOP and the religious right and China and Putin and Iran and the EU and corporate interests; between climate change, the dollar, the deficit, Iraq War, health care, education, infrastructure, and terrorist encroachment, I think we're going to need someone willing to make some incredibly hard decisions, and who will finally tell the population they have to share in a tough time of transition. She's the first politician I've met I think could and would do that."

He likes Obama, but says he's just too damn green and unconnected for the monstrous job up ahead, and therefore politically, Obama is just a Democrat's pipe dream. He also said 'McCain seems to get it, too, and he would be tough enough -- other than being too old, slightly insane, and suddenly sucking up to constituencies he despises.'
So what does your friend think of the New York Times Magizine article on "Hillary's War"?
__________________
http://outsidethewalls.com/
Absolute Zero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2007, 02:53 PM   #12
GreenCard
Registered User
 

Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,365
McCain has the best shot of making it.For some reason Repubs have a thing for bad pilots. H.Bush was shot down,McCain was shot down and W was afraid of being shot down.
GreenCard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2007, 03:12 PM   #13
82CardsGrad
7 x 70
 
82CardsGrad's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Scottsdale
Posts: 19,742
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenCard View Post
McCain has the best shot of making it.For some reason Repubs have a thing for bad pilots. H.Bush was shot down,McCain was shot down and W was afraid of being shot down.
Actually, McCain polling #'s are trending steadily downward... His position on the Immigration bill, coupled with the perceived lack of passion and vitality (his age will definitely be an issue), McCain will most likely not win the primary. IMO, it will boil down to Rudy and Fred Thompson. And if Rudy can't somehow get over his abortion position (one that I actually agree with), he's cooked...
82CardsGrad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2007, 05:18 PM   #14
Southpaw
Provocateur aka Wallyburger
 
Southpaw's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: via pacis
Posts: 27,663
Blog Entries: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZZenny View Post
I was stunned -- a very down-to-earth friend of mine who is the most politically-informed person I know personally met Hillary -- sat near her at a dinner recently -- and was (to his own considerable surprise) pretty much won over. 'Brilliant, articulate, persuasive, and tough as nails. We totally got the wrong Clinton the first time.'

I said "She's too hard, too divisive."

He said, "You haven't met her or heard her up close. She's got surprising personal charm and grace -- she's not divisive, she's decisive.

"And you don't think we're going to need someone really, really tough in the next administration? Because between the GOP and the religious right and China and Putin and Iran and the EU and corporate interests; between climate change, the dollar, the deficit, Iraq War, health care, education, infrastructure, and terrorist encroachment, I think we're going to need someone willing to make some incredibly hard decisions, and who will finally tell the population they have to share in a tough time of transition. She's the first politician I've met I think could and would do that."

He likes Obama, but says he's just too damn green and unconnected for the monstrous job up ahead, and therefore politically, Obama is just a Democrat's pipe dream. He also said 'McCain seems to get it, too, and he would be tough enough -- other than being too old, slightly insane, and suddenly sucking up to constituencies he despises.'
I have heard, from a very informed close to the Clinton's, source, that Hillary is everything your friend describes, including extrememly accomodating to a near fault. I totally agree with his take on Obama, which ticks Ab Zero off. He has no experience, and would be eaten up. Reminds me of JFK in that sense and I don't know that he can put together a staff anything close to Kennedy's.
__________________
"I read the news today, oh boy"
Southpaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2007, 06:18 PM   #15
Absolute Zero
Registered User
 

Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,108
Trust me Wally, I'm not ticked off.

But the Hillary love really suprises me. Did you read the article I posted on Hillary's Bush like pursuit of the Iraq War? And check out this article on all the big corporate and lobbyist backing for Hillary. http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070604/berman. You are entitled to your opinion, but Hillary just does not represent change to me. Just more of the same.

As far as experience, it is also interesting that Barack has held public office longer than Hillary! I must concede that he has never been first lady though!
__________________
http://outsidethewalls.com/
Absolute Zero is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Tags
ron paul



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Sitemap:1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:44 AM.



Subscribe in a reader
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007 - 2008, PixelFX Studios
Inactive Reminders By Icora Web Design