Hillary's War: A must read

Absolute Zero · June 3rd, 2007, 01:55 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/29/ma...ne&oref=slogin

Why we'd want to put anyone in the White House who didn't even bother to read the 90 page National Intelligence Estimate (only 6 Senators did) which raised doubts about the WMD issues, towed the "stay the course" line and even repeated this phrase for so long, made the same Sadam and A-Q link as Dick Cheney, and voted against an amendment to the war authorization that would have required additional diplomacy is beyond me.

Don't we need a President who can do his own homework, actually read the reports and made their own independent decision? Don't we need someone with foresight who saw this was a mistake back in 2002? If we are trying to get rid of Bush's failures, why elect someone who shared in them?

Divide Et Impera · June 3rd, 2007, 01:58 PM

Obama, baby!!!

Absolute Zero · June 3rd, 2007, 08:52 PM

Did you see how WolfB picked up on this right away in the debate tonight by twice asking Hillary if she regretted not reading the NIE estimate? She dodged, then he confirmed with Edwards that he didn't read it either. Then Barack comes in and says it was a very important report since at least one Senator cited the report in voting against the war authorization. That was awesome. Hillary looked so pissed!

Absolute Zero · June 3rd, 2007, 09:02 PM

Here's the vid of what I was talking about: http://video.msn.com/v/us/msnbc.htm?...d/18296908/&fg=

82CardsGrad · June 3rd, 2007, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Absolute Zero

Did you see how WolfB picked up on this right away in the debate tonight by twice asking Hillary if she regretted not reading the NIE estimate? She dodged, then he confirmed with Edwards that he didn't read it either. Then Barack comes in and says it was a very important report since at least one Senator cited the report in voting against the war authorization. That was awesome. Hillary looked so pissed!

This is of course all based on the assumption that had Obama been a US Senator at the time, he would've made it 7 senators that read the NIE, right??

Just saying...

RedStorm · June 4th, 2007, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 82CardsGrad

This is of course all based on the assumption that had Obama been a US Senator at the time, he would've made it 7 senators that read the NIE, right??

Just saying...

Exactly.

Absolute Zero · June 4th, 2007, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 82CardsGrad

This is of course all based on the assumption that had Obama been a US Senator at the time, he would've made it 7 senators that read the NIE, right??

Just saying...

No, he got it right in 2002 without even reading it.

Hillary, not only got it wrong, but she also failed to do her homework and failed to read the most critical report on the most important vote in her life. That's not presidential material folks.

Divide Et Impera · June 4th, 2007, 02:50 PM

Trying to cast a shadow of doubt based solely on pure speculation when there are verifiable facts to the contrary?!?!?!?

AZZenny · June 7th, 2007, 06:52 AM

I was stunned -- a very down-to-earth friend of mine who is the most politically-informed person I know personally met Hillary -- sat near her at a dinner recently -- and was (to his own considerable surprise) pretty much won over. 'Brilliant, articulate, persuasive, and tough as nails. We totally got the wrong Clinton the first time.'

I said "She's too hard, too divisive."

He said, "You haven't met her or heard her up close. She's got surprising personal charm and grace -- she's not divisive, she's decisive.

"And you don't think we're going to need someone really, really tough in the next administration? Because between the GOP and the religious right and China and Putin and Iran and the EU and corporate interests; between climate change, the dollar, the deficit, Iraq War, health care, education, infrastructure, and terrorist encroachment, I think we're going to need someone willing to make some incredibly hard decisions, and who will finally tell the population they have to share in a tough time of transition. She's the first politician I've met I think could and would do that."

He likes Obama, but says he's just too damn green and unconnected for the monstrous job up ahead, and therefore politically, Obama is just a Democrat's pipe dream. He also said 'McCain seems to get it, too, and he would be tough enough -- other than being too old, slightly insane, and suddenly sucking up to constituencies he despises.'

conraddobler · June 15th, 2007, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZZenny

I was stunned -- a very down-to-earth friend of mine who is the most politically-informed person I know personally met Hillary -- sat near her at a dinner recently -- and was (to his own considerable surprise) pretty much won over. 'Brilliant, articulate, persuasive, and tough as nails. We totally got the wrong Clinton the first time.'

I said "She's too hard, too divisive."

He said, "You haven't met her or heard her up close. She's got surprising personal charm and grace -- she's not divisive, she's decisive.

"And you don't think we're going to need someone really, really tough in the next administration? Because between the GOP and the religious right and China and Putin and Iran and the EU and corporate interests; between climate change, the dollar, the deficit, Iraq War, health care, education, infrastructure, and terrorist encroachment, I think we're going to need someone willing to make some incredibly hard decisions, and who will finally tell the population they have to share in a tough time of transition. She's the first politician I've met I think could and would do that."

He likes Obama, but says he's just too damn green and unconnected for the monstrous job up ahead, and therefore politically, Obama is just a Democrat's pipe dream. He also said 'McCain seems to get it, too, and he would be tough enough -- other than being too old, slightly insane, and suddenly sucking up to constituencies he despises.'

Hillary's got a lot of winning over to do, oh wait there isn't any other decent choice...........

I'd vote for McCain between him and Hillary but that's it so whoever the Dems nominate vs anyone but McCain who is crazy and he is sucking up but just to win, then I'm stuck with the Dem, unless Ron Paul would be nominated but that's just not going to happen.

Absolute Zero · June 15th, 2007, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZZenny

I was stunned -- a very down-to-earth friend of mine who is the most politically-informed person I know personally met Hillary -- sat near her at a dinner recently -- and was (to his own considerable surprise) pretty much won over. 'Brilliant, articulate, persuasive, and tough as nails. We totally got the wrong Clinton the first time.'

I said "She's too hard, too divisive."

He said, "You haven't met her or heard her up close. She's got surprising personal charm and grace -- she's not divisive, she's decisive.

"And you don't think we're going to need someone really, really tough in the next administration? Because between the GOP and the religious right and China and Putin and Iran and the EU and corporate interests; between climate change, the dollar, the deficit, Iraq War, health care, education, infrastructure, and terrorist encroachment, I think we're going to need someone willing to make some incredibly hard decisions, and who will finally tell the population they have to share in a tough time of transition. She's the first politician I've met I think could and would do that."

He likes Obama, but says he's just too damn green and unconnected for the monstrous job up ahead, and therefore politically, Obama is just a Democrat's pipe dream. He also said 'McCain seems to get it, too, and he would be tough enough -- other than being too old, slightly insane, and suddenly sucking up to constituencies he despises.'

So what does your friend think of the New York Times Magizine article on "Hillary's War"?

GreenCard · June 15th, 2007, 02:53 PM

McCain has the best shot of making it.For some reason Repubs have a thing for bad pilots. H.Bush was shot down,McCain was shot down and W was afraid of being shot down.

82CardsGrad · June 15th, 2007, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenCard

McCain has the best shot of making it.For some reason Repubs have a thing for bad pilots. H.Bush was shot down,McCain was shot down and W was afraid of being shot down.

Actually, McCain polling #'s are trending steadily downward... His position on the Immigration bill, coupled with the perceived lack of passion and vitality (his age will definitely be an issue), McCain will most likely not win the primary. IMO, it will boil down to Rudy and Fred Thompson. And if Rudy can't somehow get over his abortion position (one that I actually agree with), he's cooked...

Southpaw · June 15th, 2007, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZZenny

I was stunned -- a very down-to-earth friend of mine who is the most politically-informed person I know personally met Hillary -- sat near her at a dinner recently -- and was (to his own considerable surprise) pretty much won over. 'Brilliant, articulate, persuasive, and tough as nails. We totally got the wrong Clinton the first time.'

I said "She's too hard, too divisive."

He said, "You haven't met her or heard her up close. She's got surprising personal charm and grace -- she's not divisive, she's decisive.

"And you don't think we're going to need someone really, really tough in the next administration? Because between the GOP and the religious right and China and Putin and Iran and the EU and corporate interests; between climate change, the dollar, the deficit, Iraq War, health care, education, infrastructure, and terrorist encroachment, I think we're going to need someone willing to make some incredibly hard decisions, and who will finally tell the population they have to share in a tough time of transition. She's the first politician I've met I think could and would do that."

He likes Obama, but says he's just too damn green and unconnected for the monstrous job up ahead, and therefore politically, Obama is just a Democrat's pipe dream. He also said 'McCain seems to get it, too, and he would be tough enough -- other than being too old, slightly insane, and suddenly sucking up to constituencies he despises.'

I have heard, from a very informed close to the Clinton's, source, that Hillary is everything your friend describes, including extrememly accomodating to a near fault. I totally agree with his take on Obama, which ticks Ab Zero off. He has no experience, and would be eaten up. Reminds me of JFK in that sense and I don't know that he can put together a staff anything close to Kennedy's.

Absolute Zero · June 15th, 2007, 06:18 PM

Trust me Wally, I'm not ticked off.

But the Hillary love really suprises me. Did you read the article I posted on Hillary's Bush like pursuit of the Iraq War? And check out this article on all the big corporate and lobbyist backing for Hillary. http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070604/berman. You are entitled to your opinion, but Hillary just does not represent change to me. Just more of the same.

As far as experience, it is also interesting that Barack has held public office longer than Hillary! I must concede that he has never been first lady though!