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I've been hearing a lot of women say things like, "How could she not vote for Hillary? I guess feminism is dead."
What? I thought the whole idea behind feminism was to have people NOT see gender and judge people on their merits instead. But, the implication is that a woman should vote for Clinton because she's a woman. I think that's bassackwards.
Am I wrong?
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It's more complicated I think -- as she herself said, her mother was born when women still couldn't vote, and here she can watch her daughter running for president. That does resonate with a lot of women, especially fifty-and-up according to what I've read -- it's a visceral symbol that all the crap we put up with to work for equality finally has proven itself. I think some women also feel there is a steady erosion of women's autonomy globally, and women leaders may help reverse that tide. Young women are more like you describe and are called 'post-feminist' -- less impressed / interested in the gender piece.
That said, as an over-50 female whose mother was of the Betty Friedan generation (and I can remember my smart-ass father intellectually bullying and humiliating her for her first glimmer of feminist thinking) while I am pleased a woman is running and well, and she may be the best available female candidate, for me she's a Clinton and a business-as-usual candidate, and all the baggage that brings far outweighs any sentimentality.
__________________
oderint dum metuant (Latin for 'let them hate, so long as they fear').
Well, in truth I'm actually not a total hawk, but I'm not a dove either -- I'm more like an angry pigeon flying over the political arena after a really big meal. -Abba Gav
I've been hearing a lot of women say things like, "How could she not vote for Hillary? I guess feminism is dead."
What? I thought the whole idea behind feminism was to have people NOT see gender and judge people on their merits instead. But, the implication is that a woman should vote for Clinton because she's a woman. I think that's bassackwards.
Am I wrong?
No...
But AZZenny does give good points!! As usual...
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An unarmed person is a subject. An armed person is a citizen.
My ex-mother-in-law knows nothing of her policies & vision; is voting for her simply because she's female. I am one of the "young women" (do I still qualify?) that Zenny describes. I'm grateful for all the work that the previous generations have put in, but that doesn't mean I can't vote for who I think will do the job best. I think Obama stands the best chance at winning the general election, and actually getting anything accomplished as president. Therefore, I can't vote Hillary.
FWIW, I watched a lot of her interviews yesterday and for the first time ever I saw her looking very presidential. I was impressed.
I think when she takes a cue from Obama and starts casting a broad vision for all of America, that's when I'm comfortable with her as president. I always feel a little alienated by her when she talks like she's the candidate for segments of America but not all of America (a problem Dems have had for 30 years, IMO).
My feeling is every remaining candidate stands a good chance at burying us because they will be taking office after having our credibility severely diminished by the current administration. My No. 1 presidential voting issue is having someone who will restore credibility and the authority of real justice to the office -- something that the winner used to receive from the office itself.
Still won't vote for Hillary, but if she won, I'm becoming more comfortable with her ability to achieve my hope for the next president.
But even "old-school" feminists wouldn't want a man to vote against her based on her gender, so I don't see the logic in voting for her based on her agenda. To me that flies in the face of what they fought for.
This is from my mid-thirties daughter, who will Caucus in Washington Saturday.
I cried last night over not supporting the first woman in my lifetime to have a real shot at an office like this, but I think we're at the triage point where a good solid treatment is no longer sufficient, and you have to take a risk on something unproven that might provide a miracle cure.
Obama could be a miracle cure. He could also crash and burn in the
election, or after election, and there's a non-trivial chance of
assassination too. I'd sure as hell like to know who he's thinking of
for VP, but he's appropriately mum on it. Still, I don't think good
solid nutritious meals will help the country now -- we need the
political equivalent of Chemo. Clinton will *not* provide that.
__________________
oderint dum metuant (Latin for 'let them hate, so long as they fear').
Well, in truth I'm actually not a total hawk, but I'm not a dove either -- I'm more like an angry pigeon flying over the political arena after a really big meal. -Abba Gav
and there's a non-trivial chance of
assassination too. .
I have actually been very concerned about this aspect, for it seems people who actually stand for REAL change and are inspiring Americans to participate in it are most likely to fall victim to this.
I think anyone who votes based purely on Sex, Color, or religion is an idiot...
But the entire process of selecting potential candidates is idiotic. It's not about who would actually be a good president it's about who might be electable, who could get votes, who could raise money etc.
I have to wonder how the feminists would act if a Republican woman were running against Obama or Edwards in the General Election.
I'd bet good money that the NOW group would suddenly find it very easy to not support the first woman with a real chance to become President in their lifetime.
The "woman" angle is just another political ploy that would be used by whichever party had the female candidate.
Kudos to those who ignore it and vote for the candidate that they think is best for the country without regard to gender etc.
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5-11 with 'em. 5-11 without 'em.
Last edited by Duckjake; February 6th, 2008 at 03:13 PM.
I have to wonder how the feminists would act if a Republican woman were running against Obama or Edwards in the General Election.
I'd bet good money that the NOW group would suddenly find it very easy to not support the first woman with a real chance to become President in their lifetime.
The "woman" angle is just another political ploy that would be used by whichever party had the female candidate.
Kudos to those who ignore it and vote for the candidate that they think is best for the country without regard to gender etc.
Agree... And, can you imagine the state of anarchy had Condi Rice decided to make a run??
If you're a woman politician who doesn't support traditional feminist political agendas, why would NOW's lack of support be such a conflict? I think just the opposite. NOW supporting Condi Rice would be philosophically inconsistent.
If you're a woman politician who doesn't support traditional feminist political agendas, why would NOW's lack of support be such a conflict? I think just the opposite. NOW supporting Condi Rice would be philosophically inconsistent.
This argument is a little stale, IMO.
No, your post misses the point of the discussion.
The political agenda of the woman candidate was not an issue in the OP. Only that the candidate was female and therefore women should give her their vote.
So it is hypocritical to urge support of one candidate because "she's a woman" and not do that for another female candidate who doesn't share your agenda.
If a group of Conservative Women used the same gender line of "she's a woman so women should vote for her" in support of their female candidate they'd be hypocrites as well.
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