Djaughe

Here's an excellent story from a different thread...look at the opening paragraph...


The rest of the world is seeing a divided nation...when we need leaders...not pundits trying to drive in wedge issues while rescue operations are going on.

kerouac9

I'm sorry... where have I "blamed him for 9 disasters"? The "thousands of Americans" comment was his lack of interest in Katrina combined with his Iraqi adventure. How these are not the fault of this administration specifically is beyond my ken.

We are a divided nation. I wish we had leaders who were interested in preemptively addressing these concerns instead of falsely starting wars in foreign countries. How fascist of you to try and silence criticism behind a veil of national unity. Let the administration do whatever they want to, lest France think that we all don't get along.

The Emergency crews in N.O. were unable to communicate with each other! Five days later, people are still suffering outside the Convention Center. God forbid that anyone holds the people in power responsible.

EDIT: Also, DJ, really, really classy of you to cite an article about looting and chaos in the Gulf Coast to try and silence criticism of the adminstration. Are you kidding?

Djaughe

I appoligize if I took yer view out of context...its just that following yer cookie crumbs I noticed you said this:

And assumed you were blaming Bush for every disaster since he took office.


Interesting you said foreign countries...I recken you believe we should never have gone into Iraq?

lol...I've never been called a fascist before.

Methinks I'll just have to let me rep. stand on its own merits.


Interesting...I must have missed the part where bush cut the emergency crew cummunication funds...

K9...would you have prefered I 'googled' it?

The article illustrates my point that the world sees us as a divided nation during a major disaster.

We were united under the 9/11...I didn't see Nancy Pelosi slaming the right as bodies were being pulled out of the twin towers wreckage...

This is a P&R forum and its intended for folks to read an/or share their opinions. I appoligize if you feel in our debate that I was attempting to silence criticism of Bush...for that is not my intent.

I respect your opinions as of most everyone (azcards21 is kinda looney ) and I certainly hope you don't feel like I'm targeting you or wish any ill will to befall you.

kerouac9

Allowing first responders to communicate with each other in times of crisis has been a long-term recommendation since 9/11. How often have we heard about it? How many millions (billions?) of dollars have been given to first responders? And yet--in a place where there was a known capacity for serious disaster--the first responders were unable to communicate with one another? Where's this vaunted leadership with which you credit the president and his administration?

It most certainly does not illustrate that point. The article expresses foreign shock that people in the Gulf Coast would murder, rape, and plunder one another in the aftermath of the hurricane, and that this wasn't something that happened following the tsunami in the allegedly "barbaric" islands. If mischaracterizing an article is your game, who are you to accuse me of "politicizing" an issue? What you're doing is the worst kind of politicizing. I don't believe that looting, rape, and martial law are partisan issues.

And this is nothing personal, DJ. Just think about who's water you're carrying when you ask people to be quiet and not question the Administration when things are going crazy. Great evils have been done under the banner of unity.

kerouac9

By the way, according to NPR, the President is thinking that some tax cuts might be necessary to stimulate the economy in the wake of the disaster. Who's politicizing this now?

Djaughe

So if the feds give the money and recommendation on how to use it...and the first responders fail to improve their communication system...whose fault is it?

Again this is another 'attack' example of not knowing yet what happened....and where did I give credit to the administration? There's a time and place to have hearings and investigations.

I don't believe in giving out 'high 5's' and gold star stickers while dead people are floating in the river...nor do I look to point the finger of blame while there's work to be done in rescuing people.

Again opinions are fun to compare and discuss. I cited the opening paragraph and even left a link for anyone to read. I certainly hope you don't believe that looting, rape, and martial law are partisan issues...but yer posts show otherwise.

I don't take much personal offense on a cyberboard.

Its just interesting that you claim I'm asking fer folks to be quiet and not to question bush...while from my perspective 'politicizing' an event while rescue operations is underway just smacks of lunacy with the only intent to divide a nation (politically and socially).

kerouac9

I don't see why you can't both support rescue operations and criticize the time it took to finally get them underway.

Honestly, if there weren't a pattern or irresponsible and unprepared behavior present from the administration from this point, I'd agree that we can take time before we start pointing fingers, but I think that this is a particularly heinous example.

The nation is already divided. I don't know if taking a moment and pretending it isn't is going to change anything. On NPR, they were talking to a survivor in NO, and they asked him what he'd say to the President. He said, "I'd tell him to bring our boys home from Iraq." This is a guy up to his knees in oily water. If the president didn't work so hard to be a divisive figure, it might be easier to unite behind him:

I bet that's comforting to all the people who are looking for their families.

SirStefan32

No, it's not right, but it's to be expected. This is democrats we are talking about, nothing should surprise you. They'd sell their own mothers and sisters into slavery if it ment an opportunity to bash Bush.

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LoyaltyisaCurse

Dude some of the stuff you come up with is completely absurd, I think you need to relax...

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Djaughe

Okay...I got to rescue my rugrats from the evil leftist baby sitter!


But I want to add some tidbits before I leave...I (and many other right wingers) sensed days ago that the initial response to this disaster sucked and certainly seemed inadequate and ineffective and certainly at odds from what I (and many other right wingers) would have expected in a post 9/11 America.

We lost more than an entire city...we lost many cities and the response just has not risen to the level required and expected.



President Bush has acknowledged the failure:

Quote:

"A lot of people are working hard to help those who've been affected, and I want to thank the people for their efforts," Bush said before leaving the White House for a tour of the devastated areas in Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana. "The results are not acceptable."

k9 you have leveled some heat for my criticism of this event being politicized.



But I beleive that it is disapointing to watch politicians on t.v. seem more concerned with party politics than the lives slipping away each hour in New Orleans.

I frankly don't give a hoot about the impact of this tradgedy has on future elections or the reputations of anyones pet politicians.

Those politicians (right and left) should be ashamed of themselves for acting like political opportunists while people are dying.

This disaster was not preventable.

However, many of the failures in communication, damage assessment, staging, and response were. I believe it's still too early to talk about those things but a long and difficult national conversation does loom on the horizon.

conraddobler

And some people excuse everything he's done or at least chalk up his failings to simple human error well within the margin of effective leadership.

I however am not one of "those people" so you can save your indignation for someone who cares at least as far as I am concerned.

This issue shouldn't be used for political gain and neither should you run around an aircraft carrier in flight garb to politicize a tragedy especially when your own military record is sketchy at best.

You also shouldn't lie to the American people and exploit their anger to further your own agenda.

You shouldn't turn gay marriage into a hot button issue so as to allow yourself 4 more years of the same old same old.

Get over yourself, your party in chief isn't above it never has been never will be.

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At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide.

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Djaughe

You got me.

*shakesangryfistandjumpsintodarkhole*

conraddobler

Don't expect the government to show up soon and pull you out of that hole, they have to study it, come back from vacation and mobilize a team first.

__________________
At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide.

~Abraham Lincoln Lyceum Address

justAndy

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wallyburger

Wrong. It is called responsibilty, accountability and performance under fire. In situations like this, one doesn't get a " do over ". Incompetence can't be ignored. When the opposition balked at nominations and screamed about patronizing appointments to unqualified nominations, the politics came into play. Well, this is what you get for sham nominations. Now is the best time to educate the constituency. It ain't " I told you so " tactics, it is a demand for reform. We can't handle another bungled catastrophe. It comes with the job, and if they ain't up to it, get the hell out of the arena. The country doesn't need incompetence.

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