gay marriage bill - Page 8

jenna2891 · September 9th, 2005, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CQ

Wow, did you read what I posted? I was asking why someone would stay in a religion that dictates like that. I believe I stated in one of my posts above that I am not catholic, I am Christian.

no, i know. i was just teasing. but that's what always bugged me about catholics who complain about strict teachings, or disagreeing about things. i always think, "well, go to a faith that fits what you want then."

Djaughe · September 9th, 2005, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenna2891

i guess i don't like any definition changes. it seems to negate the importance of a definition if it can be changed whenever.

lol...its okay....

*patsjennaontheshoulder*

It took some folks awhile to accept a change to the definiton of who gets to vote in this country...

btw...thats a joke kid.

krepitch · September 9th, 2005, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kolobotomy

I really don't care which argument make more Consititutional or logical or historical sense. Opposing gay marriage means treating or classifying certain men and women different from all others based solely on who they fall in love with, which I think is a ridiculous notion. And all of the justification for those opposing gay marriage is window dressing for homophobia or religious intolerance or disdain or pure bigotry. And I hate how the Republican party is beholden to those most vocally and virulently opposed to it.

And I should say I think most who oppose it do so mainly on religious grounds--in which case, keep your religion to yourself.

Fantastic post.

LoyaltyisaCurse · September 9th, 2005, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kolobotomy

I really don't care which argument make more Consititutional or logical or historical sense. Opposing gay marriage means treating or classifying certain men and women different from all others based solely on who they fall in love with, which I think is a ridiculous notion. And all of the justification for those opposing gay marriage is window dressing for homophobia or religious intolerance or disdain or pure bigotry. And I hate how the Republican party is beholden to those most vocally and virulently opposed to it.

And I should say I think most who oppose it do so mainly on religious grounds--in which case, keep your religion to yourself.

nidan · September 9th, 2005, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CQ

Wow, I'm sitting here realizing what a huge difference there is between just your standard Christian church and Catholic churches. All the "not allowed" stuff seems very extreme.

Maybe this gives you an insight into how us secular types see some of the evangelical christian positions. Some of those beliefs seem a 'little extreme' to us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CQ

As a Christian, I feel that certain things are wrong, and one should strive to make good, moral choices.

Part of our problem is that we all have different opinions as to what is moral and what isn't. The issue is when people start making 'moral' judgements for others as opposed to themselves.

btw: This isn't talking about you CQ, it's more that your comment seemed like an opportunity to compare your view vs catholic, to evangelical vs secular. To me it seems like a very similar situation.

CQ · September 9th, 2005, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nidan

Maybe this gives you an insight into how us secular types see some of the evangelical christian positions. Some of those beliefs seem a 'little extreme' to us.

Part of our problem is that we all have different opinions as to what is moral and what isn't. The issue is when people start making 'moral' judgements for others as opposed to themselves.

btw: This isn't talking about you CQ, it's more that your comment seemed like an opportunity to compare your view vs catholic, to evangelical vs secular. To me it seems like a very similar situation.

I agree! A lot of evangelical Christians I know are just too much! I hate it when the extreme "Christians" give the rest of us a bad name!

nidan · September 9th, 2005, 11:18 PM

Imagine how I feel about those opinions

CQ · September 9th, 2005, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nidan

Imagine how I feel about those opinions

I so can't imagine! I'd apologize for them if I thought it'd help!

Dback Jon · September 10th, 2005, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CQ

I know I'm totally getting off topic here, but oh well, here I go!

I do feel that the Catholic church is TOO strict. I know some VERY good pastors that have been divorced and are re-married. It's almost like a former life that they learned from and gained strength from. I just feel that if God can forgive and move on, which He can and does, why can't "the church"?

But Jesus said.....

Mark 10
2 Some Pharisees came and tested him by asking, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?"
3 "What did Moses command you?" he replied.
4 They said, "Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce and send her away."
5 "It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law," Jesus replied.
6 "But at the beginning of creation God `made them male and female.'
7 `For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,
8 and the two will become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one.
9 Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."
10 When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this.
11 He answered, "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her.
12 And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery."

In the same passage that is sometimes used against gay marriage (which it doesn't really address), Jesus comes down firmly against divorce. By Divorcing, then remarrying, you are in violation of the Ten Commandents.

It is so funny down here in the south, with the highest divorce rates in the nation, that the Southern Baptists, et al are so dang sancitmonous about gay marriage, the Ten Commandments, etc, when half of them are in adulterous relationships, at least according to Jesus.

Dback Jon · September 10th, 2005, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kolobotomy

I really don't care which argument make more Consititutional or logical or historical sense. Opposing gay marriage means treating or classifying certain men and women different from all others based solely on who they fall in love with, which I think is a ridiculous notion. And all of the justification for those opposing gay marriage is window dressing for homophobia or religious intolerance or disdain or pure bigotry. And I hate how the Republican party is beholden to those most vocally and virulently opposed to it.

And I should say I think most who oppose it do so mainly on religious grounds--in which case, keep your religion to yourself.

Pariah · September 10th, 2005, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CQ

if God can forgive and move on, which He can and does, why can't "the church"?

I'm not catholic--not even religious--but i can answer this one. It's not the Church's place to forgive. What you're talking about is Divine forgiveness, and the church simply follows what it believes to be the word of God; it enforces the "rules" as it believes them to be from God.

If the Church tried to forgive someone for their sins," it would be like a middle manager firing someone when only the CEO has firing authority--they would be overstepping their bounds--even if the guy being fired was going to be fired by the CEO anyways.

KloD · September 10th, 2005, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pariah

I'm not catholic--not even religious--but i can answer this one. It's not the Church's place to forgive. What you're talking about is Divine forgiveness, and the church simply follows what it believes to be the word of God; it enforces the "rules" as it believes them to be from God.

If the Church tried to forgive someone for their sins," it would be like a middle manager firing someone when only the CEO has firing authority--they would be overstepping their bounds--even if the guy being fired was going to be fired by the CEO anyways.

Than what is the point of this confession stuff?

Just as it is not the "church's" job to "forgive", it is also not their job to judge. I thought according to the bible, only God can judge? So, who are all these self proclaimed christians who are judging others? Sinners?

Pariah · September 10th, 2005, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KloD

Than what is the point of this confession stuff?

I don't know.

Quote:

Just as it is not the "church's" job to "forgive", it is also not their job to judge. I thought according to the bible, only God can judge? So, who are all these self proclaimed christians who are judging others? Sinners?

I think god's "'judgement" is different form the "judging" that you're referring to by people. People are passing judgement on what they believed God has said is "sin." I'll bet if you were to ask a guy like Falwell about judging sinners, he's say something like "I'm judging their actions, not their soul."

FischerKing · September 10th, 2005, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoyaltyisaCurse

Why should there be a line drawn?

because without distinctions everything dissolves into meaninglessness.

shawn

Chris_Sanders · September 11th, 2005, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kolobotomy

I really don't care which argument make more Consititutional or logical or historical sense. Opposing gay marriage means treating or classifying certain men and women different from all others based solely on who they fall in love with, which I think is a ridiculous notion. And all of the justification for those opposing gay marriage is window dressing for homophobia or religious intolerance or disdain or pure bigotry. And I hate how the Republican party is beholden to those most vocally and virulently opposed to it.

And I should say I think most who oppose it do so mainly on religious grounds--in which case, keep your religion to yourself.

I only saw this because someone quoted it.

I have removed you from ignore Kolobotomy.