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View Poll Results: Can you be a feminist and be against abortion?
that is very beautiful and i am very sorry. i was welling up as i read it. i cannot imagine the pain that you must feel. you made the same point that my mother always make (i have never been pregnant, she has 11 times): the woman always knows exactly what is going on. she knows it is a baby.
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but don't you give the benefit of the doubt to life? if a swat team was surrounding a bank being held up by someone, and they knew they could "take out" the hostage taker, but there was a slight chance, maybe .01% that an innocent hostage would be killed as well, they would never take that chance. or if they did, they would be held accountable for being so reckless with others lives.
....bad analogy and analogies do not, an argument make.
Ask the Brazilian guy in London with 13 holes in his head.
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In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way.
Franklin D. Roosevelt
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." --Voltaire
so if i can get to a baby before the umbilical is cut, it's not murder because life hasn't begun yet? so all that kicking the baby does before it's born is the act of something not alive? the fact that a baby responds to a mother's voice because it recognizes it from when it was in the womb, that recognition comes from a time when the baby couldn't have registered it because it wasn't alive?
Location: on the run from johnny law... ain't no trip to cleveland
Posts: 9,352
A$FN: 1,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingofCards
I am not running around performing abortions, nor is my wife having them. I am saying it is not your business, or the Governments, if a woman wants to have an abortion. That is my position on this issue.
Please refrain from placing words into my mouth. I say enough idiotic things as it is.
i know what your position is, and i don't think that you actually believe that poverty levels dictate life. i was making a point. the arguement that not aborting would lead to kids that are unwanted and living in poverty often times, that seems to me to be an arguement for quality of life as a determinant.
that is very beautiful and i am very sorry. i was welling up as i read it. i cannot imagine the pain that you must feel. you made the same point that my mother always make (i have never been pregnant, she has 11 times): the woman always knows exactly what is going on. she knows it is a baby.
Thanks. I guess what I was trying to get across in that original post was that there is always another option. In many cases, abortion is used as a form of birth control. The smaller % of cases (which are the ones that people come down to fighting about) are either for the safety of the mother or because the child has a zero percent chance of life outside the womb. I am against abortion 99% of the time. I think that the only times it should EVER be used is if the mother's life is in immediate danger and going a more natural route (inducing, etc) would take the mother's life. In those RARE cases, I feel that an abortion is medically necessary. If it's not done to save the life of the mother, then it is one person making the choice to kill another.
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~Just because I have a short attention span doesn't mean...~
i know what your position is, and i don't think that you actually believe that poverty levels dictate life. i was making a point. the arguement that not aborting would lead to kids that are unwanted and living in poverty often times, that seems to me to be an arguement for quality of life as a determinant.
Many arguments can and have been made regarding this issue. I don't have any figures on the mean income of abortion patients, just made an assumption that they are most likely to be young and poor.
You'd think the capitialist republican in you would say, less poor people equals less welfare, less strain on the public schools, less crime, etc, so abortion is good... I know you don't think that way, but it is a bit of a dualistic point of view. "You poor people can't have abortions." and then be against welfare.
Now I am not advocating that people go out and get abortions, I am saying that they should have the choice. It is not my place to decide what a woman that I do not know does with her body.
Location: on the run from johnny law... ain't no trip to cleveland
Posts: 9,352
A$FN: 1,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingofCards
Many arguments can and have been made regarding this issue. I don't have any figures on the mean income of abortion patients, just made an assumption that they are most likely to be young and poor.
You'd think the capitialist republican in you would say, less poor people equals less welfare, less strain on the public schools, less crime, etc, so abortion is good... I know you don't think that way, but it is a bit of a dualistic point of view. "You poor people can't have abortions." and then be against welfare.
Now I am not advocating that people go out and get abortions, I am saying that they should have the choice. It is not my place to decide what a woman that I do not know does with her body.
yes yes yes, you don't think we should tell women what to do their bodies blah blah blah. that point has been made. but i think you are missing my big and only point: it is always the taking of another life. it is that very important detail that hinges all of my arguements. because i believe that, not murdering should be first, welfare issues etc. fall after that. try and look at all of these arguements with my point of view in mind (i'm not saying believe it, but just switch gears for a second). if you do, my beliefs won't be so hard to understand. btw, have all of those things you mentioned above improved because of abortion?
I just want to know what your thoughts would be if you were raped by your father or uncle at the age of 12 and were impregnated. Should you be forced to have that baby? Someone very close to me had this same thing happen to them and that person's view is, unless you have been put in the situation you shouldn't even have an opinion on abortion
yes yes yes, you don't think we should tell women what to do their bodies blah blah blah. that point has been made. but i think you are missing my big and only point: it is always the taking of another life. it is that very important detail that hinges all of my arguements. because i believe that, not murdering should be first, welfare issues etc. fall after that. try and look at all of these arguements with my point of view in mind (i'm not saying believe it, but just switch gears for a second). if you do, my beliefs won't be so hard to understand. btw, have all of those things you mentioned above improved because of abortion?
sidenote: i'm a registered independent.
yes yes yes, you think abortion is murder, blah, blah, . That point has been made.
I stated earlier that I believe life begins at ejaculation. I think that a case can be made about that just as easily as stating it begins at conception. Truthfully. Sperm is definetly alive, it swims, it has some sort of intelligence as it has a purpose and attempts to perform it, that sperm if it makes it to the egg becomes a human. But you cannot tell me that the sperm itself is not "alive".
btw, have all of those things you mentioned above improved because of abortion?
I'm sure there are many many young women (and men) who's lives have been greatly enhanced because they opted for abortion. They are able to go to school, continue their education and follow their dreams rather than being relegated to raising children on welfare. The children of children have much higher rates of drug abuse, criminal activity and have a higher % chance of becoming teen parents themselves compared to children of stable older adults.
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