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First of all, I am by no means an expert, but I have noticed a trend among several of the posters here that I don't understand.
I have noticed many posts of workout routines where people have listed that on their lift days they are doing Back and Chest the same day or Chest and Biceps the same day, etc.
It is just my humble opinion but one should NEVER work Chest and Biceps or Back and Triceps on the same day.
A rule of thumb is Back and Bi's, Chest and Tri's.
The reason being that ideally you want to exhaust muscle groups that work together.
For example: If you burn out your biceps just prior to beginning your back routine, you are FORCING your back muscles to do the work. Whereas if you worked chest first and then moved on to your back routine, your biceps working in conjunction with your back will assume some of the load and thus you don't get the full benefit. Make sense?
Also, by working chest one day and then triceps the next, you are overworking your triceps since they are also load bearing muscles during your chest workout. You aren't allowing enough time for the muscle tissue to repair itself before you start breaking it down again. The same applies for back and biceps. If you work back one day, like it or not you have loaded down your biceps. Anyone that has done bent over rows or seated rows etc. knows what I mean. So if you move on to a bicep workout the next day, you are tearing down once again what the body is trying to repair.
Like the title says, it's just a thought. I think if you adjust your routine to follow that simple rule, you will see gains faster, and there is less chance of getting discouraged since your muscles will have fully recovered before you work them again.
Keep up the good work!
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Bob Melvin is an idiot. Period.
if i ever get back into lifting, I will consult you.
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A rule of thumb is Back and Bi's, Chest and Tri's.
Kinda like "Lefty loosy, Righty righty!"
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First of all, I am by no means an expert, but I have noticed a trend among several of the posters here that I don't understand.
I have noticed many posts of workout routines where people have listed that on their lift days they are doing Back and Chest the same day or Chest and Biceps the same day, etc.
It is just my humble opinion but one should NEVER work Chest and Biceps or Back and Triceps on the same day.
A rule of thumb is Back and Bi's, Chest and Tri's.
The reason being that ideally you want to exhaust muscle groups that work together.
For example: If you burn out your biceps just prior to beginning your back routine, you are FORCING your back muscles to do the work. Whereas if you worked chest first and then moved on to your back routine, your biceps working in conjunction with your back will assume some of the load and thus you don't get the full benefit. Make sense?
Also, by working chest one day and then triceps the next, you are overworking your triceps since they are also load bearing muscles during your chest workout. You aren't allowing enough time for the muscle tissue to repair itself before you start breaking it down again. The same applies for back and biceps. If you work back one day, like it or not you have loaded down your biceps. Anyone that has done bent over rows or seated rows etc. knows what I mean. So if you move on to a bicep workout the next day, you are tearing down once again what the body is trying to repair.
Like the title says, it's just a thought. I think if you adjust your routine to follow that simple rule, you will see gains faster, and there is less chance of getting discouraged since your muscles will have fully recovered before you work them again.
Keep up the good work!
I agree with you HR. Push muscles one day Pull muscles another day.
However that is not what I am doing at the moment. I was working out as you stated but right now I am following Bill Phillips (Body for Life) workout... well sorta.
His workouts are as follows
Upper Body
Chest
Shoulders
Back
Tri's
Bi's
Lower Body
Quads
Hammies
Calves
Abs
Aerobic 20 minutes
One of the things I do not like about this program is way to much wear and tear on your legs. Trying to do Aerobic exercise the day after legs is killer.
I entered the BfL challenge and I do not think I am close to were I should be but I will be posting my before and after pics here in about 2 weeks! I have improved but not enough IMO.
__________________ All Hell is breakin loose!!!!!
An unarmed person is a subject. An armed person is a citizen.
Nice thread HR. Keep in mind that the great (and most controversial and confusing) thing about strength and conditioning is that as long as you work really hard, every program will work for a short period of time (as long as the program is safe).
Program design is important because it makes us focus on a specific routine for a period of time and people are more likely to keep track of their progress. This is why BFL has had so much success - because it makes you follow a structured program instead of the way most people work out is by copying / asking what the biggest guy or most fit looking woman does in the gym or by just doing what ever they feel like each day.
It is just my humble opinion but one should NEVER work Chest and Biceps or Back and Triceps on the same day.
HR, I think that the program that I posted in the other thread is one that you have issue with because I am a believer in working opposing muscle groups on the same day for the following reasons:
a) working the opposing muscle group allows the target muscle group to achieve a better contraction and recovery through reciprocal inhibition.
b) It allows you to super set and maintain a high intensity of training - meaning I do not have to sacrafice the amount of weight I move and I can still super set - my chest is resting while my back is working - saves time for those of us with busy schedules. If you were to super set chest and triceps you would have to greatly reduce the amount of weight on the chest exercise (unless it was a fly or pec deck - but those don't really count)
c) Pre-fatiguing is a measure used by advanced body builders and generally is not appropriate for those looking to improve strength and body composition. If my triceps are fatigued I will not be able to hit my chest with the appropriate intensity - the bigger muscles need a bigger stimulus (weight) to grow.
d) I always have a day off between chest and back and arm day and I only do direct arm training once a week. During some phases I do not do direct arm training at all as they get enough stimulus from the heavy chest, back and shoulder work.
Like I said before nobody is wrong here because everything will work for a period of time a "push / pull" program has been great for a long time. Whatever you do just "go hard!"
HR, I think that the program that I posted in the other thread is one that you have issue with because I am a believer in working opposing muscle groups on the same day for the following reasons:
a) working the opposing muscle group allows the target muscle group to achieve a better contraction and recovery through reciprocal inhibition.
b) It allows you to super set and maintain a high intensity of training - meaning I do not have to sacrafice the amount of weight I move and I can still super set - my chest is resting while my back is working - saves time for those of us with busy schedules. If you were to super set chest and triceps you would have to greatly reduce the amount of weight on the chest exercise (unless it was a fly or pec deck - but those don't really count)
c) Pre-fatiguing is a measure used by advanced body builders and generally is not appropriate for those looking to improve strength and body composition. If my triceps are fatigued I will not be able to hit my chest with the appropriate intensity - the bigger muscles need a bigger stimulus (weight) to grow.
d) I always have a day off between chest and back and arm day and I only do direct arm training once a week. During some phases I do not do direct arm training at all as they get enough stimulus from the heavy chest, back and shoulder work.
Like I said before nobody is wrong here because everything will work for a period of time a "push / pull" program has been great for a long time. Whatever you do just "go hard!"
huh... I never would've thunk it!
I will have to try this when I get done with BfL.
__________________ All Hell is breakin loose!!!!!
An unarmed person is a subject. An armed person is a citizen.
Nice thread HR. Keep in mind that the great (and most controversial and confusing) thing about strength and conditioning is that as long as you work really hard, every program will work for a short period of time (as long as the program is safe).
Program design is important because you follow a structured program instead of the way most people work out is by copying / asking what the biggest guy or most fit looking woman does in the gym or by just doing what ever they feel like each day.
Amen to that. Different things work for different people, too many make the mistake of asking somebody in the gym who they want to emulate or "become" what they do. Find your own path.
The idea of working Bi's and Tri's during the same routine is what I have come to know as "supersetting". I have heard many different definitions, that is the one I hear most commonly. I like supersetting, just not as standard practice. To do it for a week or two while trying to shock the muscles or break through a plateau is great. Again, this is all just my opinion.
I try to keep the advice basic, stuff that the beginner can use. General rules to follow. More of a common-everyone approach.
As a matter of fact I think I'll start a new thread doing just that!
__________________
Bob Melvin is an idiot. Period.
b) It allows you to super set and maintain a high intensity of training - meaning I do not have to sacrafice the amount of weight I move and I can still super set - my chest is resting while my back is working - saves time for those of us with busy schedules. If you were to super set chest and triceps you would have to greatly reduce the amount of weight on the chest exercise (unless it was a fly or pec deck - but those don't really count)
This is what I try and do for exactly this reason... so I can squeeze in more lifting when I'm short on time. It's not perfect, but you can only do so much in 20-30 min.
Plus, if I'm hitting it hard enough and don't pause too much, lifting keeps my heart rate up near where it is when I'm doing cardio. Not the same thing, of course, but closer than conventional set lifting.
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All Hell is breakin loose!!!!!
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