Why Plummer will succeed in Denver where Arizona failed him... - Page 13

SECTION 11 · July 31st, 2003, 11:35 AM

Fredo, Pop wants to talk to ya. Something about a toll booth.

Krangthebrain · July 31st, 2003, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DCCardsFan
This is the whole problem I have here. Only TWO YEARS AGO, there was a large majority of people who supported Plummer and thought he was a good player, who wasn't necessarily represented by his stats. The only people I can remember not liking Plummer were Russ Smith, Gizmo, CardFreak, and NEM. There may have been more, but they certainly weren't vocal.

Two years later, and nearly EVERY PERSON ON THIS BOARD bags on him constantly, with nearly every single bad quality a QB could have (other than being a bad guy) being alleged. He's stupid, he has terrible awareness, he makes bad decisions, he has a weak arm, his arm is inaccurate, etc. Pretty much everything is covered.

Weak, inaccurate arm? Folks, weak inaccurate arms aren't second round draft picks. You've got to at least have A) a strong arm, or B) an accurate arm to get drafted AT ALL, much less be a second round draft pick.

And then there's the blatant untruths about other teams bringing safeties up into the box to stop the run. My challenge remains - give me one play from any year besides last year, where other teams inched safeties up into the box to run-stop. You can tell that the safeties are concerned about the run, if they're not flying through the line to get at the QB. PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG. Until then, quit claiming something that didn't happen!

Just because you repeat something enough doesn't make it true.

All those who changed their minds about Plummer: Did Plummer all of the sudden get worse? Were you DEAD WRONG BEFORE, despite having seen 4 years of him at QB? Are you just wishy-washy people in general? Did you only like Plummer because you're a homer? Why exactly did you change your minds? It looks a lot like sour grapes to ME. It looks alot like the sour grapes that has been shown to nearly every single other player who has left Arizona, for whatever reason.

(Crickets chirping in the background)

AZCB34 · July 31st, 2003, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DCCardsFan
This is the whole problem I have here. Only TWO YEARS AGO, there was a large majority of people who supported Plummer and thought he was a good player, who wasn't necessarily represented by his stats. The only people I can remember not liking Plummer were Russ Smith, Gizmo, CardFreak, and NEM. There may have been more, but they certainly weren't vocal.

Two years later, and nearly EVERY PERSON ON THIS BOARD bags on him constantly, with nearly every single bad quality a QB could have (other than being a bad guy) being alleged. He's stupid, he has terrible awareness, he makes bad decisions, he has a weak arm, his arm is inaccurate, etc. Pretty much everything is covered.

Weak, inaccurate arm? Folks, weak inaccurate arms aren't second round draft picks. You've got to at least have A) a strong arm, or B) an accurate arm to get drafted AT ALL, much less be a second round draft pick.

And then there's the blatant untruths about other teams bringing safeties up into the box to stop the run. My challenge remains - give me one play from any year besides last year, where other teams inched safeties up into the box to run-stop. You can tell that the safeties are concerned about the run, if they're not flying through the line to get at the QB. PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG. Until then, quit claiming something that didn't happen!

Just because you repeat something enough doesn't make it true.

All those who changed their minds about Plummer: Did Plummer all of the sudden get worse? Were you DEAD WRONG BEFORE, despite having seen 4 years of him at QB? Are you just wishy-washy people in general? Did you only like Plummer because you're a homer? Why exactly did you change your minds? It looks a lot like sour grapes to ME. It looks alot like the sour grapes that has been shown to nearly every single other player who has left Arizona, for whatever reason.

I am not even sure I want to answer you but I will. I always wanted Jake to do better. I never thought he was great and in alot of cases I didn't think he was very good either. What I always wanted was improvement. Last year was the straw that broke the camel's back. The improvement never happened IMO. So I said enough. Change is good sometimes simply for the sake of change. Maybe Jake will be better in Denver. Do you really care?

He doesn't have a strong arm...he has a very average arm. And that is my opinion.

So there you go. Not sour grapes...not worthless homerism. I never even changed my mind. I just never saw him get better...EVER.

EDIT: And we know you love Jake. That much is clear. As far as I am concerned, like I tried to tell Taco John, the Jake conversation is done until the season starts.

Russ Smith · July 31st, 2003, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taco John
Part of the problem with our high sack count, however, falls directly on Griese's inability to consistently step up into the pocket. Jake's mobility should pay dividends for us there...

I submit that if the Cards don't improve their offensive line, you are going to have the same problems with Blake that you had with Jake.

Don't get it. if Jake's mobility is so important then why did the OL here cause him so many INT's?

Can't have it both ways, if the bad OL was the problem, and the Broncos OL is bad then Jake will have the same problems now.

Taco John · July 31st, 2003, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Russ Smith
Don't get it. if Jake's mobility is so important then why did the OL here cause him so many INT's?

Can't have it both ways, if the bad OL was the problem, and the Broncos OL is bad then Jake will have the same problems now.

You've got to be kidding me...

If you want to answer this question, maybe you should go back to the arguments you were making in Jake's favor two years ago...

SECTION 11 · July 31st, 2003, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taco John
You've got to be kidding me...

If you want to answer this question, maybe you should go back to the arguments you were making in Jake's favor two years ago...

Two years ago it was 'potential' and 'maybe he'll cut down on his mistakes.'

bratwurst · July 31st, 2003, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DCCardsFan
All those who changed their minds about Plummer: Did Plummer all of the sudden get worse? Were you DEAD WRONG BEFORE, despite having seen 4 years of him at QB? Are you just wishy-washy people in general? Did you only like Plummer because you're a homer? Why exactly did you change your minds? It looks a lot like sour grapes to ME. It looks alot like the sour grapes that has been shown to nearly every single other player who has left Arizona, for whatever reason.

All I can say is that for the past 4 years, every single time Jake dropped back to pass, I got a lump in my throat. Every single time.

Picture it - Makovicka doesn't go in motion to telegraph to the defense if the run is coming. Then Jake takes the snap, begins his drop. At this moment for the past 4 years I would almost get sick to my stomach until the ball either fell incomplete or a Cardinal caught it. Its almost like watching Jake has traumatized me with fear of the forward pass.

I wanted Jake to do well - I liked the guy and hoped that he could take the Cardinals somewhere. 98 was a great year and I hoped Jake could bring back that magic at some point. But the fact of the matter is, he wore out his welcome. Starting two years ago I just couldn't take the constant and same mistakes anymore. The welcome mat didn't just wear out, it disintegrated. We as fans gave him more then enough tries.

I just hope it doesn't take long to make a full recovery of forwardpassophobia with Blake at the helm now.

Krangthebrain · July 31st, 2003, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bratwurst
All I can say is that for the past 4 years, every single time Jake dropped back to pass, I got a lump in my throat. Every single time.

EXACTLY! EXACTLY! EXACTLY! EXACTLY! EXACTLY! EXACTLY!

DCCardsFan · July 31st, 2003, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AZCB34
I am not even sure I want to answer you but I will. I always wanted Jake to do better. I never thought he was great and in alot of cases I didn't think he was very good either. What I always wanted was improvement. Last year was the straw that broke the camel's back. The improvement never happened IMO. So I said enough. Change is good sometimes simply for the sake of change. Maybe Jake will be better in Denver. Do you really care?

He doesn't have a strong arm...he has a very average arm. And that is my opinion.

So there you go. Not sour grapes...not worthless homerism. I never even changed my mind. I just never saw him get better...EVER.

EDIT: And we know you love Jake. That much is clear. As far as I am concerned, like I tried to tell Taco John, the Jake conversation is done until the season starts.

Love is a strong word. I only love truth. And when I believe I'm right, I fight for it. When someone tells untruths about even someone I don't particularly like, I will argue it. I only want to be fair.

Do you think he has an inaccurate arm? Because when that comment gets thrown out there, no one disagrees.

And I agree with you that Jake needed to be gone, because CHANGE IS GOOD sometimes merely for the sake of change. But that doesn't mean we need to revise history in order to make Jake look as bad as possible. That's whats happening here......to the only QB to take us to a playoff victory in the last 54 years (Oh, I forgot, we went IN SPITE OF jake).

Russ Smith · July 31st, 2003, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taco John
You've got to be kidding me...

If you want to answer this question, maybe you should go back to the arguments you were making in Jake's favor two years ago...

You're confusing me with some other Russ. In 1997 I was quite excited about Jake. IN 1998 I blamed him for us NOT wining the NFC east, but I cut him slack he was still young. Since 1999 when he refused to admit he was hurt and kept going out there and losing games, I have been a "jake hater", DC will agree with me on that point. You expect a young player to have a learning curve, it became obvious to me by '99 that Jake's curve was really different, that he was still making the same mistakes he made 2 years ago, and that the club was WAY over committed to him financially and otherwise.

i don't make excuses for Jake.

You said his mobility will avoid in Denver what Griese could not. You said his inconsistent OL in ARizona made him play poorly. So again, if his mobility didn't help him in Arizona, why will it help him in Denver? there's a huge hole in your logic.

As for why we're here and not on Orangemane, I can only follow so many boards, I happen to prefer the Freak board because it has less nonsense on it.

bratwurst · July 31st, 2003, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DCCardsFan

Do you think he has an inaccurate arm? Because when that comment gets thrown out there, no one disagrees.

Its pretty accurate to the Linebackers and Safeties that he never actually sees, but seems to stare and aim at very effectively.

Krangthebrain · July 31st, 2003, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DCCardsFan
Love is a strong word. I only love truth. And when I believe I'm right, I fight for it. When someone tells untruths about even someone I don't particularly like, I will argue it. I only want to be fair.

Do you think he has an inaccurate arm? Because when that comment gets thrown out there, no one disagrees.

So all of us here are liars? Not only are we worthless homers, but now we are liars because we don't agree with you?

Ryanwb · July 31st, 2003, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taco John
You've got to be kidding me...

If you want to answer this question, maybe you should go back to the arguments you were making in Jake's favor two years ago...

He has always disliked Jake.....

Ryanwb · July 31st, 2003, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DCCardsFan
Love is a strong word. I only love truth. And when I believe I'm right, I fight for it. When someone tells untruths about even someone I don't particularly like, I will argue it. I only want to be fair.

Do you think he has an inaccurate arm? Because when that comment gets thrown out there, no one disagrees.

And I agree with you that Jake needed to be gone, because CHANGE IS GOOD sometimes merely for the sake of change. But that doesn't mean we need to revise history in order to make Jake look as bad as possible. That's whats happening here......to the only QB to take us to a playoff victory in the last 54 years (Oh, I forgot, we went IN SPITE OF jake).

Jake's numbers speak for themselves.....he sucks ass

SECTION 11 · July 31st, 2003, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DCCardsFan
Do you think he has an inaccurate arm? Because when that comment gets thrown out there, no one disagrees.

Yes. He is not very accurate.

Most NFL QB's don't spin their RB around on screen passes.
Most NFL QB's hit receivers in stride across the middle.
Most NFL QB's hit receivers on out routes in the numbers, toward the sideline.