Why Plummer will succeed in Denver where Arizona failed him... - Page 12

SECTION 11 · July 31st, 2003, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taco John
Apparently you guys are only comfortable in your own backyard...

Chargers fan is the same way... They've been such an inept franchise in the AFC West for so long that the thought of running it on other boards makes them weak in the knees... They're afraid they'll run into some resistance... Like someone won't think that their team is as great as they think it is or something...

Is there a Cardinals board with some dudes that have the stones to represent?

I know I for one have always been scared of message boards.
You won't find me anywhere else discussing the Cardinals.
Nope. Too traumatic.

You need better bait. The wrigglers aren't working.

Taco John · July 31st, 2003, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brian in Mesa
Awfully cocky.

NFL Championships:

Cardinals 2
Broncos 2

It's a wash.

You must know something that I don't...

Taco John · July 31st, 2003, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SECTION 11
I know I for one have always been scared of message boards.
You won't find me anywhere else discussing the Cardinals.
Nope. Too traumatic.

You need better bait. The wrigglers aren't working.

I saw you at the Chiefs board, where it was obvious you weren't going to get much resistance... But even then, you were too afraid to come run the same anti-Jake/Bronco smack on a Broncos forum... :roll:

bratwurst · July 31st, 2003, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taco John

I don't want your hollow stats. I want a yes or no answer to my question... Yes we've had a very consistent offensive line, or no we didn't have a very consistent offensive line?

you don't want hollow stats? What the hell do you think started this whole thing?

"Jake played in 84 games in Arizona, and the Cardinals out rushed the other team a total of 23 times. These are Jakes stats in those games.

Record 19-4

506 comp / 703 att 31 td's 18 int's 4,993 yds

That's a quarterback rating of 91.7"
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthr...&threadid=4714

Come back in December when Jake has shown you his skills at playing catch with the other teams linebackers for a full season.

SECTION 11 · July 31st, 2003, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taco John
I saw you at the Chiefs board, where it was obvious you weren't going to get much resistance... But even then, you were too afraid to come run the same anti-Jake/Bronco smack on a Broncos forum... :roll:

I've already made my introductions on the Huddle board, Bronco Freak, NFL World, Eagles.com (there's an understanding bunch), Extreme Skins, Rams.com, the Bear Report, blah, blah, blah.

We've covered this topic for six years. Many people have been following Plummer since his ASU days (where the five yard slant and the underthrown deep ball were his trade mark... shocking).

You've watched him for all of three games, so I'm sure you're looking for some more insight that you can deflect with your armored suit of homerism.

SECTION 11 · July 31st, 2003, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taco John
too afraid

Hilarious.

spanky · July 31st, 2003, 11:16 AM

Mr. Tacky,

You made a comment that football is a game of probabilities. If you truely believe this then the QB position is PROBABLY going to be Denver's weakest link.

You see,we who have seen Plummer operate for the last 5-6 years, PROBABLY witnessed the most inept performance of any starting QB in the league. He PROBABLY will suffer the same fate in Denver.

Why do I think this...........well it's PROBABLY becuz I had 5-6 years of experience watching him in AZ. Don't kid yourself, the Denver Broncos were not a hell of a lot better than we were last year............you'll PROBABLY be just as disappointed in him as we are. While a VERY likeable fellow, he's just not a good QB at all.

SECTION 11 · July 31st, 2003, 11:19 AM

I've been reading that thread, and I haven't seen anything other than a bunch of retards bagging on the Cardinals. Talk about Homers. Not one point has been debated. So 9+ years of following Plummer is all negated because they went 5-11 last year? Brilliant.

Jersey Girl · July 31st, 2003, 11:20 AM

Only time will tell how Jake does in Denver, but I'd wager he'll do just as well/poorly as he did in AZ.

What caught my eye was a post on the Denver board saying that Jake would throw less than 10 interceptions. I have to agree ... that is, if he meant per game and not per season. I think we all know that Jake was good for at least two interceptions per game.

Taco, most Cards fans had lots of hope for Jake. Most supported him til the end. After 6 years and 5 losing seasons, it was time for something different. All I can say is more interceptions than touchdowns ... and good quarterbacks find a way to win, bad ones find a way to lose. Jake did both so who really knows how good or bad he'll be for Denver.

And your points about the Cards not being a winning organization or committed to winning is lost here. It's real easy for people who don't follow the Cards to talk about what's wrong with them and why they aren't a winning franchise. Yeah, everyone's an expert because they watch NFL Prime Time Sunday night and see two minutes of highlights. But, we know our team and watch more than three games a season, so don't test us.

Brian in Mesa · July 31st, 2003, 11:22 AM

I'm a little confused.

We're mostly Cardinals fans here.

Unless we're playing the Broncos, why would we visit your board?

Because our ex-QB is now playing there? He's our ex-QB, why would we care about him until we play your team?

Obviously things must be slow in Denver if you've got to go around the internet to all the other teams' boards.

I apologize on behalf of most of the people here on our board. For having lives and jobs and families. If we didn't, maybe then we could be more like you, Taco.

AZCB34 · July 31st, 2003, 11:23 AM

Taco John

We don't need to come over to your board because we are exhausted by the Jake discussions. We have been having them forever it seems. The Broncos will either get the Jake we expect them to get or the Broncos have the best coaches in the universe. Until the season starts...does it really matter what we think?

Oh, and there is little need to try and lure us to your board. It will be more of the same as you have brought. Bronco fans who have never bothered studying the Cards unless you played us and now you act like you guys know everything about us. Sorry. Doesn't work that way. If you watch EVERY game Jake played in and are making the same statements you are making now...fine. But clearly you have made your choices based on a very small amount of imformation.

Trust me. Alot of us are going to watch the Denver happenings this year with great interest but the arguments are old.

JeffGollin · July 31st, 2003, 11:25 AM

Obviously things must be slow in Denver if you've got to go around the internet to all the other teams' boards.
I took a look at the thread title and immediately jumped to the last comment posted.

Judging from the above comment it was just as I thought - some pathetic Denver fan with nothing better to do than troll rival NFL boards.

Jake's all yours. Either he'll do good or he'll suck.

Blake's all ours. Either he'll do good or he'll suck.

Suggest you get a life and let the season come to you. Then we'll see.

cheesebeef · July 31st, 2003, 11:26 AM

Man - we are you guys still arguing with this guy - Do I need to go back to the darkside and put up a Rod Graves thread to rip you guys away from this mind-numbing read - he will see what happens once the season starts - admittedly the guy only has tapes of Seattle the Rams and the other Seattle game - one game where Jake had a great performance from Thomas Jones and still had a horrendous game, The second Seattle game where Jake and ur pathetic defense put us down 27-6 before he decided to play and I'm not sure which Rams game it was but if it was the ESPN game, well then he got one of three good games. If he's basing his argument on those games then he's not just an unkowledgable fan, he just down right stupid.

So much for making my point about not continuing to argue this anymore.

Wild Card · July 31st, 2003, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taco John
No. That's pretty much all that I've got on the subject...

What you guys aren't realizing is that this question has context for this discussion and ones that I've had in the past regarding Griese... I think both quarterbacks suffered from the lack of decent offensive line protection, and that both require that protection in order to be effective.

A perfect example is Trent Green, who I would rate equally with Jake and Brian... The guy can't make a downfield read to save his life under pressure, but given rock solid blind side protection he is able to take his time and look downfield to find the open guy... Often he won't have the confidence to make the throw to the open guy, so he'll dump it off to Priest underneath. The point is, it works for him. Once they gave him protection, he started to manage the offense better, and ran the highest scoring offense in the league.

Brian was one of the highest rated passers last year, with a record of 7-3, until we lost our left guard. We then had to do a shuffle on our offensive line that sent us on a skid that we weren't able to recover from... Like many of you, our fans blamed the quarterback for not being able to make it all happen on his own... He is, afterall, being paid a lot of money (as if money is a factor on the field of play... maybe Jake was supposed to pay off the defensive linemen?)

Part of the problem with our high sack count, however, falls directly on Griese's inability to consistently step up into the pocket. Jake's mobility should pay dividends for us there...

I submit that if the Cards don't improve their offensive line, you are going to have the same problems with Blake that you had with Jake.

TJ:

Good post, and a pretty-decent read on Trent Green's rebirth in the KC offense. You're one of the few Broncos fans I've seen acknowledge the o-line's role in Brian Griese's recent problems in Denver. I'll be interested to see how Griese performs in Miami, once they make the inevitable switch from Jay Fiedler. (Fiedler will either struggle or get hurt by mid-season. Either way, Brian's behind center in November.)

A couple of observations on Plummer.

It was pretty well-documented--locally, at least--that he struggled with operating Marc Trestman's version of the WCO, that the Cards dumbed down that offense as a result, and that Trestman recommended making Plummer available in the expansion draft. I have a hard time envisioning Jake running the Broncos offense, one of the league's more-complex schemes.

Even in simpler schemes, like Rich Olsen's, it never seemed that the game slowed down for Jake. In his last year, he was still missing open receivers, getting surprised by defensive coverages, and making poor throw/ run decisions.

He's an easy guy to root for. Likeable, enthusiastic, competitive, unpretentious. He'll give you highlight-reel plays and improbable comebacks. He'll play hard for you and never quit.

I just don't know if Plummer's a legitimate NFL starter. After spending millions of dollars on him--and millions more on draftees, free agents and coaches to help him succeed--the Cards gave up. If he's really got the talent to start in this league, the Broncos are giving him what may be his last, best chance to prove it.

WC

DCCardsFan · July 31st, 2003, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jersey Girl Cards Fan
Most supported him til the end. After 6 years and 5 losing seasons, it was time for something different.

This is the whole problem I have here. Only TWO YEARS AGO, there was a large majority of people who supported Plummer and thought he was a good player, who wasn't necessarily represented by his stats. The only people I can remember not liking Plummer were Russ Smith, Gizmo, CardFreak, and NEM. There may have been more, but they certainly weren't vocal.

Two years later, and nearly EVERY PERSON ON THIS BOARD bags on him constantly, with nearly every single bad quality a QB could have (other than being a bad guy) being alleged. He's stupid, he has terrible awareness, he makes bad decisions, he has a weak arm, his arm is inaccurate, etc. Pretty much everything is covered.

Weak, inaccurate arm? Folks, weak inaccurate arms aren't second round draft picks. You've got to at least have A) a strong arm, or B) an accurate arm to get drafted AT ALL, much less be a second round draft pick.

And then there's the blatant untruths about other teams bringing safeties up into the box to stop the run. My challenge remains - give me one play from any year besides last year, where other teams inched safeties up into the box to run-stop. You can tell that the safeties are concerned about the run, if they're not flying through the line to get at the QB. PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG. Until then, quit claiming something that didn't happen!

Just because you repeat something enough doesn't make it true.

All those who changed their minds about Plummer: Did Plummer all of the sudden get worse? Were you DEAD WRONG BEFORE, despite having seen 4 years of him at QB? Are you just wishy-washy people in general? Did you only like Plummer because you're a homer? Why exactly did you change your minds? It looks a lot like sour grapes to ME. It looks alot like the sour grapes that has been shown to nearly every single other player who has left Arizona, for whatever reason.