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No, the Cardinals didn't have a consistent offensive line last year.
No, it wasn't close to the Chiefs and Raiders in terms of pass protection (#8 and tied for #15 in sacks allowed, with 26 and 36, respectively). However, with 41 sacks allowed, the Cardinals did rank higher, at #21, than the Broncos did, with 46, at #27.
Any other questions?
WC
No. That's pretty much all that I've got on the subject...
What you guys aren't realizing is that this question has context for this discussion and ones that I've had in the past regarding Griese... I think both quarterbacks suffered from the lack of decent offensive line protection, and that both require that protection in order to be effective.
A perfect example is Trent Green, who I would rate equally with Jake and Brian... The guy can't make a downfield read to save his life under pressure, but given rock solid blind side protection he is able to take his time and look downfield to find the open guy... Often he won't have the confidence to make the throw to the open guy, so he'll dump it off to Priest underneath. The point is, it works for him. Once they gave him protection, he started to manage the offense better, and ran the highest scoring offense in the league.
Brian was one of the highest rated passers last year, with a record of 7-3, until we lost our left guard. We then had to do a shuffle on our offensive line that sent us on a skid that we weren't able to recover from... Like many of you, our fans blamed the quarterback for not being able to make it all happen on his own... He is, afterall, being paid a lot of money (as if money is a factor on the field of play... maybe Jake was supposed to pay off the defensive linemen?)
Part of the problem with our high sack count, however, falls directly on Griese's inability to consistently step up into the pocket. Jake's mobility should pay dividends for us there...
I submit that if the Cards don't improve their offensive line, you are going to have the same problems with Blake that you had with Jake.
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Originally posted by Taco John Yes. Every quarterback makes mistakes. But football is a game of probability. The probability of your quarterback making mistakes raises significantly when the guys in front of him aren't doing their jobs. There is a significant cause and effect relationship involved, because it's a team sport...
But how you react to those mistakes is what makes or breaks a QB no?
Look at the no look flip against the Raiders last year, Shipp ran the wrong way on the handoff, so Jake could either take off and run, or eat the ball. Most Qb's eat the ball. Jake is so competitive that he refuses to do that even when it's the smart move, so instead he blindly flips the ball and the Raiders get it and score a TD a minute later. Yes Shipp made a mistake but the TO was because of how JAKE handled that mistake.
That's why when people say Jake is fiery, a competitor, that's what the Broncos need, I warn them. Most of his mistakes are a DIRECT result of that part of his personality. he simply can't accept that sometimes a sack or throwaway is the BEST play.
To make an analogy if you approaches stocks the way Jake does football you'd go bankrupt because you'd never be willing to sell at a loss to avoid further losses.
Jeff BLake spent years on bad teams with guys screwing up around him but HE handled it differently. That's why we're all glad to have him now, he's been in this situation before and demonstrated he could deal with it.
Originally posted by Russ Smith Unfortunately he'd too often throw it into coverage instead of away when the rush got there
The arm stregnth to throw it away effectively just isn't there.
He was trying to throw it away in Dallas, and it went about 20 yards right to Coakley. It was boggling. One of the worst plays / decisions I have ever seen by an NFL QB. Hell, by a college QB. A horrible decision compounded by a weak arm.
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You can't ride home on a bowl of goat.
I've always said that.
Originally posted by Russ Smith But how you react to those mistakes is what makes or breaks a QB no?
Look at the no look flip against the Raiders last year, Shipp ran the wrong way on the handoff, so Jake could either take off and run, or eat the ball. Most Qb's eat the ball. Jake is so competitive that he refuses to do that even when it's the smart move, so instead he blindly flips the ball and the Raiders get it and score a TD a minute later. Yes Shipp made a mistake but the TO was because of how JAKE handled that mistake.
That's why when people say Jake is fiery, a competitor, that's what the Broncos need, I warn them. Most of his mistakes are a DIRECT result of that part of his personality. he simply can't accept that sometimes a sack or throwaway is the BEST play.
To make an analogy if you approaches stocks the way Jake does football you'd go bankrupt because you'd never be willing to sell at a loss to avoid further losses.
Jeff BLake spent years on bad teams with guys screwing up around him but HE handled it differently. That's why we're all glad to have him now, he's been in this situation before and demonstrated he could deal with it.
Great post Russ. Frankly I'm annoyed by this guy, he knows diddly squat about our team and the Jake Plummer situation.
99% of Jake's problems were due to his inability to take a loss, throw the ball away, or look for another open target.
Post this on your fricking board Taco boy:
I said it last season if the Cards brought Plummer back, I would quit going to games.
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26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.
Originally posted by Taco John I think you'd have to be pretty ignorant of the game to think that any quarterback doesn't need great protection to be consistent/productive... But maybe that's just me...
TJ:
Yeah, it's just you.
Pocket-passer types with limited mobility, like the guy you just got rid of, do need at least some protection to be productive. The faster they make their reads and deliver the ball, the less time they need (in his prime, Dan Marino was the poster boy for this style). But they still need some.
On the other hand, any Bronco fan who watched John Elway play knows that some QBs don't need great pass protection to be effective. Current QBs with similar skills, like Donovan McNabb and Michael Vick, make mediocre o-lines look better than they are.
The only reasonable argument for Plummer being a better fit in Denver than Griese is Jake's presumed ability to escape pressure and make plays. It's circular logic to say that his poor career stats in Arizona were due to lack of protection. If that's the kind of quarterback Plummer is, then he's no improvement over Griese.
And the Broncos won't be any better.
WC
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Everybody knows that... the Bird is the Word!
I believe he will perform in Denver about the same that he performed in Arizona. I think Denver will have less patience than Arizona did. I don't see Denver waiting 6 years hoping the guy can learn to better read NFL defenses.
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"If Chuck is Solo, Larkin is his Fett!" - Morgan
Oh they aren't better, they're significantly worse.
I would have traded Jake Plummer and a draft pick to the Broncos in a heartbeat. Hell I would traded Jake for a bucket of Church's chicken and a 6 pack of Pabst Blue Ribbon.
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26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.
Originally posted by Brian in Mesa I have faith in Jake Plummer.
I believe he will perform in Denver about the same that he performed in Arizona. I think Denver will have less patience than Arizona did. I don't see Denver waiting 6 years hoping the guy can learn to better read NFL defenses.
See the main criticism that I have for the Cards about Jake, is that they didn't cut ties quick enough.
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26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.
Originally posted by Wild Card On the other hand, any Bronco fan who watched John Elway play knows that some QBs don't need great pass protection to be effective.
You are an idiot if you believe that... John Elway needed pocket protection... And he finally got it... Not long after that, he finally got two Superbowl wins.
Originally posted by Taco John You are an idiot if you believe that... John Elway needed pocket protection... And he finally got it... Not long after that, he finally got two Superbowl wins.
Terrell Davis. Once he established himself all Elway had to do was not turn it over. Ya know, make better decisions and cut down on his mistakes.
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You can't ride home on a bowl of goat.
I've always said that.
You can at least admit that you have no idea how Jake will do for the Broncos this season, right? It's all speculation, on your part and on ours.
Many of us here have watched Jake play in every game he played as a Sun Devil and as a Cardinals' player, so what we say is at least from experience and not off the cuff.
I am glad that you have faith in the coaches and players surrounding Jake, and a real passion for your team in general.
Just don't be surprised if you're visiting us midway through the season asking where we serve crow.
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"If Chuck is Solo, Larkin is his Fett!" - Morgan
Chargers fan is the same way... They've been such an inept franchise in the AFC West for so long that the thought of running it on other boards makes them weak in the knees... They're afraid they'll run into some resistance... Like someone won't think that their team is as great as they think it is or something...
Is there a Cardinals board with some dudes that have the stones to represent?
Frankly John, we're not coming to Orange Mane because this topic has been beaten to death for six years.
Fans can only take so much, before we're sick and tired of talking about something.
As Brian said, many of us have watched Jake for TEN YEARS. We know Jake much better than any Bronco fan.
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26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.
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