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Read my post above or click on the link, one of the polls referenced suggest that there is a 50/50 split regarding this intolerance.
Either way. Enough said with this subject.
The GAO report and statistics speak for themselves.
I bet you it is higher in certain military units than others. They should do the poll on each branch and each type/groups of MOS to get a better reading. However I'm sure things have change a lot since I got out in 89'.
__________________ All Hell is breakin loose!!!!!
An unarmed person is a subject. An armed person is a citizen.
Personally I wouldn't care either. But how many guys in your unit were rednecks, bible thumpers, or just down right *******?
I can tell you that alot of guys I served with were at least one of those and they all would have had a HUGE problem serving with a gay man.
Bigotry in any regard has never been defeated by making concessions to the bigots. Make harassment of gays in the military a serious offense, make use of gay slurs a serious offense. It's not just the culture of the military where gays are not tolerated--it's also locker rooms, Sunday School classrooms, etc... No excuse should be made for it anywhere, no matter the consequences.
Bigotry in any regard has never been defeated by making concessions to the bigots. Make harassment of gays in the military a serious offense, make use of gay slurs a serious offense. It's not just the culture of the military where gays are not tolerated--it's also locker rooms, Sunday School classrooms, etc... No excuse should be made for it anywhere, no matter the consequences.
Bigotry in any regard has never been defeated by making concessions to the bigots. Make harassment of gays in the military a serious offense, make use of gay slurs a serious offense. It's not just the culture of the military where gays are not tolerated--it's also locker rooms, Sunday School classrooms, etc... No excuse should be made for it anywhere, no matter the consequences.
And then what? You've made these rules and there will be a few examples made, but do you really think that the culture would change? Do you really think that life in the military for an openly gay man would be just peachy keen because the rules say it should be?
It's all nice to say the PC thing and preach tolerance but the fact is that it's not reality.
__________________ "I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy".
And then what? You've made these rules and there will be a few examples made, but do you really think that the culture would change? Do you really think that life in the military for an openly gay man would be just peachy keen because the rules say it should be?
It's all nice to say the PC thing and preach tolerance but the fact is that it's not reality.
There are many, MANY people in this world who would disagree with your passive, apologetic view of things....
Unless the military has changed in the 12 yrs its been since I have been out I sincerely doubt an openly gay man would be widely accepted by any unit. There are a lot of homophobes out there, try telling one of them that they are going to bunk with a gay man, morale would plummet. I can only imagine the crap the straight guy would get from the others in his platoon for having a gay room mate.
Life for the openly gay serviceman would be miserable, if he could stick it out I'd be very impressed. life for a lesbian would probably be easier because guys don't feel threatened by them and less women are homophobes.
I personally don't care. If they can do their job and are reliable then so be it. But the world as we live in right now isn't as tolerant as they should be.
Bigotry in any regard has never been defeated by making concessions to the bigots. Make harassment of gays in the military a serious offense, make use of gay slurs a serious offense. It's not just the culture of the military where gays are not tolerated--it's also locker rooms, Sunday School classrooms, etc... No excuse should be made for it anywhere, no matter the consequences.
I certainly would like for it to change but you are talking about the defense of the nation. Unfortunately I think the best approach is baby steps. If Louis numbers are accurate then the military isn't that far off from getting it done (or for you redneck lubers 'getter dun').
__________________ All Hell is breakin loose!!!!!
An unarmed person is a subject. An armed person is a citizen.
And then what? You've made these rules and there will be a few examples made, but do you really think that the culture would change? Do you really think that life in the military for an openly gay man would be just peachy keen because the rules say it should be?
It's all nice to say the PC thing and preach tolerance but the fact is that it's not reality.
No one is thinking that everything would be peachy right away. But at some point, and that point is now, the change needs to happen, and it needs to happen with support from the C-I-C on down.. Too many talented gay and lesbian American Citizens have been denied serving their Country because of these antiquated ideas.
If some can't handle it, then they have no place in the Armed Forces.
And then what? You've made these rules and there will be a few examples made, but do you really think that the culture would change? Do you really think that life in the military for an openly gay man would be just peachy keen because the rules say it should be?
It's all nice to say the PC thing and preach tolerance but the fact is that it's not reality.
Every single argument that has been made in this thread was, without a doubt, made when the military was faced with de-segregation. I can tell you with 100% certainty people said, "You can't let blacks together with whites--the whites just won't trust them" "It will be bad for the harmony of the units", blah, blah, blah. Until change is FORCED, real change will never happen. YES, it will be VERY difficult for the men and women that are gay that are paving the way. They are willing to take up the cause, however, and it will eventually get better, just like de-segregation.
Unless the military has changed in the 12 yrs its been since I have been out I sincerely doubt an openly gay man would be widely accepted by any unit. There are a lot of homophobes out there, try telling one of them that they are going to bunk with a gay man, morale would plummet. I can only imagine the crap the straight guy would get from the others in his platoon for having a gay room mate.
Life for the openly gay serviceman would be miserable, if he could stick it out I'd be very impressed. life for a lesbian would probably be easier because guys don't feel threatened by them and less women are homophobes.
I personally don't care. If they can do their job and are reliable then so be it. But the world as we live in right now isn't as tolerant as they should be.
Replace "homophobes" with "racists" and "gay" with "Black." Life certainly was difficult for Black servicemen when units integrated and many whites didn't like it, and I'm sure more than a few Blacks were beaten or otherwise mistreated. Obviously, 50 years later, that lack of "morale" among the bigots has largely dissipated, and the sacrifices of Blacks who took beatings and the politicians who maybe lost votes seems worth it (although I realize that's pretty easy for me to say). The time will come when gays will be as accepted in society as heteros. It's time confront the bigots, if they won't progress willingly.
Replace "homophobes" with "racists" and "gay" with "Black." Life certainly was difficult for Black servicemen when units integrated and many whites didn't like it, and I'm sure more than a few Blacks were beaten or otherwise mistreated. Obviously, 50 years later, that lack of "morale" among the bigots has largely dissipated, and the sacrifices of Blacks who took beatings and the politicians who maybe lost votes seems worth it (although I realize that's pretty easy for me to say). The time will come when gays will be as accepted in society as heteros. It's time confront the bigots, if they won't progress willingly.
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