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If your reference book is the bible, then its doesn't change, new information isn't forthcoming, new research doesn't unearth new scientific theories. The Bible is and apart from picking the translation that you prefer and ongoing picking over the words therein, no new facts or information is going to come from it. If you think the Bible told you Evolution was bad last year, it will tell you the same this year.
Then, if we are not talking about the far extremist fringes, but a little more on the cliff - so to speak, cannot the same be said for religious types? Case in point - the Episcopalians. They've elected gay clergy, a move towards tolerance to be sure. For another example on a different front, the Catholics, which are starting to embrace the Big Bang theory and Evolution - their reasoning being that the bible stated it was so, but did not describe the details, so who knows how it actually happened.
I believe that moderate religion, unlike fundamentalist religion, is capable of moving with the times and re-interpreting the holy books. Yes, they do move slower than secular society at times - but that doesn't mean that they are incapable of adaption and social evolution (witness Martin Luther and the protestant revolution).
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But as I've found even here, when it comes to some subjects, even less fanatical folks are unwilling to compromise as they depend on one source for their basis os truth.
You are correct at the real extremes logic makes little difference. Once you come in from those extremes though people with a secualr orientation can compromise and discuss subjects based on facts and evidence.
If your reference book is the bible, then its doesn't change, new information isn't forthcoming, new research doesn't unearth new scientific theories. The Bible is and apart from picking the translation that you prefer and ongoing picking over the words therein, no new facts or information is going to come from it. If you think the Bible told you Evolution was bad last year, it will tell you the same this year.
When it comes to truth about the bible, especially when it comes to debunking untruths about it, I will use the bible as reference.
When it comes to everyday life and political opinion the bible factors in to the equasion for me, but below common sense and basic human decency.
That should be a platform for a canidate to run on.
"Heucrazy 08', Bringing basic human decency back to Washington"
__________________ "I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy".
When it comes to truth about the bible, especially when it comes to debunking untruths about it, I will use the bible as reference.
When it comes to everyday life and political opinion the bible factors in to the equasion for me, but below common sense and basic human decency.
That should be a platform for a canidate to run on.
"Heucrazy 08', Bringing basic human decency back to Washington"
WOW.
What is the dividing line between common sense, basic human decency, and the bible?
I hope you've ditched the Old Testament as a "moral" or ethical guide - it's straight up barbaric.
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WOW.
What is the dividing line between common sense, basic human decency, and the bible?
I hope you've ditched the Old Testament as a "moral" or ethical guide - it's straight up barbaric.
The dividing line is "live and let live". I have my beliefs and life style and you have yours. Don't force yours onto me and I won't force mine onto you.
Mosaic law was ditched 2,000 years ago by Jesus.
__________________ "I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy".
The dividing line is "live and let live". I have my beliefs and life style and you have yours. Don't force yours onto me and I won't force mine onto you.
Mosaic law was ditched 2,000 years ago by Jesus.
And that would be why you're not a fanatic. If you were, you'd be trying to convert us all...
I am taking this out of context. So, to be clear I am just answering the question above.
NO. Definately not.
A radical conservative replublican is just as dangerous as a radical liberal democrat.
The point of this government, WAS to have a happy middle.
Unfortunately, both sides spend so much time trying to undo what the other side has already done, that nothing productive gets accomplished.
Anytime you put radical, or extreme in front of a group of people with certain beliefs, it is dangerous. Because radical/extreme usually translates to voilent, stubborn, narrow mindedness/sigtness, all things that come together and makes one person try to push his beliefs onto another. In bold is the worse crime you can ever commit.
Exactly!
Quote:
Originally Posted by RugbyMuffin
You are the last person I would ever expect to quote Carlin.
When it comes to everyday life and political opinion the bible factors in to the equasion for me, but below common sense and basic human decency.
I wish more folks were like that.
I also wish folks like you would do something to reign the nutters in control of the asylum. As GOP politics is currently controlled by them.
I see it all the time [or rather I did until this year] Bill after bill in congress trying to advance conservative Chtrsitian ideas of morality for example, pushing their idea of what is moral into others. Needless to say every such bill had a "Protect our children" line in it, freedom of speech and individual responsibility seem to be a very low priority or religion motivated moral crusades.
Unfortunately I see far to often then moderate sounding words followed by support for extremely religious conservative candidates.
I also wish folks like you would do something to reign the nutters in control of the asylum. As GOP politics is currently controlled by them.
I see it all the time [or rather I did until this year] Bill after bill in congress trying to advance conservative Chtrsitian ideas of morality for example, pushing their idea of what is moral into others. Needless to say every such bill had a "Protect our children" line in it, freedom of speech and individual responsibility seem to be a very low priority or religion motivated moral crusades.
Unfortunately I see far to often then moderate sounding words followed by support for extremely religious conservative candidates.
What I think most people don't realize is that the majority of Christians (at least the ones I know) are more disgusted and turned off by the hardcore fanatics than non-christians.
It's like being white and watching a KKK or Neo-Nazi rally. Not only are you disgusted but you're even more incensed because they are making you look bad in others eyes for simply sharing the same color of skin.
__________________ "I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy".
I'd love to believe that but the evidence is against you.
When push comes to shove at election time, folks like you seem to line up behind conservative Christian candidates.
Is that because there are no others available,then that is also part of the problem. Until moderate take back control of the party machinery, that is all we will get. The only way to do that is vote against the candidates, which is something folks like yourself seem unwilling to do.
It seems that enough are concerned over several key religious conservatives issues, Gay Marriage and morals come to mind that you just go along.
This has driven me away from voting for GOP candidates.
I'd love to believe that but the evidence is against you.
When push comes to shove at election time, folks like you seem to line up behind conservative Christian candidates.
Is that because there are no others available,then that is also part of the problem. Until moderate take back control of the party machinery, that is all we will get. The only way to do that is vote against the candidates, which is something folks like yourself seem unwilling to do.
It seems that enough are concerned over several key religious conservatives issues, Gay Marriage and morals come to mind that you just go along.
This has driven me away from voting for GOP candidates.
I'd love to believe that but the evidence is against you.
When push comes to shove at election time, folks like you seem to line up behind conservative Christian candidates.
Is that because there are no others available,then that is also part of the problem. Until moderate take back control of the party machinery, that is all we will get. The only way to do that is vote against the candidates, which is something folks like yourself seem unwilling to do.
It seems that enough are concerned over several key religious conservatives issues, Gay Marriage and morals come to mind that you just go along.
This has driven me away from voting for GOP candidates.
The evidence is far from against me personally. And there in lies the problem. I'm a christian so I get lumped in with the fanatics and the people who follow them. Gay marriage, abortion, and other issues along those lines have never been a focus politicaly for me. I vote based on economics. When I was in the Navy I voted for Bush because the quality of life under Bush went up for the military, pay, benifits, housing, and the budget to fix our ships dramtically increased under Bush. Then the bastard went and started an unessecary war and crapped on all of us.
__________________ "I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy".
Just from my perspective looking in many of the religiously motivated folks even here and the one's I'm talking about are good friends. They balk when some of these litmus issues are raised and fall into lock step again.
Its like the constant drumbeat for Constitutional amendments to encode their version of morality into form not easily reversed. Fortunately they aren't easily enacted either.
I just get so tired of this continual push to encode a particularly religious view into law so I am forced to follow it.
Take online gambling for example. This is another moral crusade that the last congress managed to attack before being voted out.
I have no problem with gambling in general, just like anything else it can be abused. I also have zero interest in gambling online, I like playing blackjack in person. So you might think this has no effect on me, not so.
The religious right controlled GOP found they couldn't truly stop online gambling as most of the sites were offshore. So what they did was to make it illegal to use credit cards to transfer cash.
This has a chilling effect on online games like Second Life, where one of the entertaining things was various forms of gambling, even if it was for a 100ths of a penny. So SL then promptly had to ban all forms of gaming or risk a federal lawsuit. This simply isn't right, its forcing their idea of morals onto me, if I want to waste 1/10 of a penny on a Sploder [SL lottery type idea] that is my business not the federal government's.
I am sick of such interfering and enforcement of their Christian morality onto me. What's even more interesting is apparently this violates WTO treaties and now the EU is suing the USA for Billions for treaty violation and the damages done by that.
Just from my perspective looking in many of the religiously motivated folks even here and the one's I'm talking about are good friends. They balk when some of these litmus issues are raised and fall into lock step again.
Its like the constant drumbeat for Constitutional amendments to encode their version of morality into form not easily reversed. Fortunately they aren't easily enacted either.
I just get so tired of this continual push to encode a particularly religious view into law so I am forced to follow it.
Take online gambling for example. This is another moral crusade that the last congress managed to attack before being voted out.
I have no problem with gambling in general, just like anything else it can be abused. I also have zero interest in gambling online, I like playing blackjack in person. So you might think this has no effect on me, not so.
The religious right controlled GOP found they couldn't truly stop online gambling as most of the sites were offshore. So what they did was to make it illegal to use credit cards to transfer cash.
I am sick of such interfering and enforcement of their Christian morality onto me. What's even more interesting is apparently this violates WTO treaties and now the EU is suing the USA for Billions for treaty violation and the damages done by that.
Is there not the same with the far left as well? For decades they have been blocking the construction of new refineries regardless of location - which has led to the current rise in gas prices. Same with nuclear power. In the construction industry, we call these groups CAVE People - Citizens Against Virtually Everything, and behind the CAVE People is a large special interest group.
Sadly, this is a recurring theme throughout the history of humanity - I know better than you, so screw what you want, I'll do what I want and force it on you, and you'll thank me later for it.
My point being that extremists do this, regardless of political leaning - until we recognize that and take steps to address it (like forming a large middle party), we are going to be held hostage in the political process by them.
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