Enjoy an Ads-Free ASFN - lighter and faster too! Become an ASFN-Contributor and help support the site.
Go Back   Arizona Sports Fans Network > Other Stuff > Politics and Religion

Welcome to ASFN Fan Forums! We're glad to have you here. Please feel free to browse the forum. We'd like to invite you to join our community; doing so will enable you to view additional forums and post with our other members.


Registered Members don't see these ads. Register now it's free!
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old January 6th, 2007, 12:00 AM   #1
LoyaltyisaCurse
Answers Before Questions
 
LoyaltyisaCurse's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Chatsworth, CA
Posts: 12,409
A$FN: 4,800

White House pact cloaked visits amid scandal


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16491370/?GT1=8921


WASHINGTON - The White House and the Secret Service quietly signed an agreement last spring in the midst of the Jack Abramoff lobbying scandal declaring that records identifying visitors to the White House are not open to the public.

The Bush administration didn’t reveal the existence of the memorandum of understanding until last fall. The White House is using it to deal with a legal problem on a separate front, a ruling by a federal judge ordering the production of Secret Service logs identifying visitors to the office of Vice President Dick Cheney.

In a federal appeals court filing three weeks ago, the administration’s lawyers used the memo in a legal argument aimed at overturning the judge’s ruling. The Washington Post is suing for access to the Secret Service logs.

The five-page document dated May 17 declares that all entry and exit data on White House visitors belongs to the White House as presidential records rather than to the Secret Service as agency records. Therefore, the agreement states, the material is not subject to public disclosure under the Freedom of Information Act.

Logs revealed Lewinsky visits

In the past, Secret Service logs have revealed the comings and goings of various White House visitors, including Monica Lewinsky and Clinton campaign donor Denise Rich, the wife of fugitive financier Marc Rich, who received a pardon in the closing hours of the Clinton administration.

The memo last spring was signed by the White House and Secret Service the day after a Washington-based group asked a federal judge to impose sanctions on the Secret Service in a dispute over White House visitor logs for Abramoff.

The chief counsel to another Washington-based group suing to get Secret Service logs calls the creation of the memo “a political maneuver couched as a legal one.”

It appears the White House is actually manufacturing evidence to further its own agenda,” Anne Weismann, a Justice Department lawyer for 19 years and now chief counsel to Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, said Friday.

The White House and the Secret Service declined to comment.

Last year in the Abramoff scandal, the Bush administration, in response to three lawsuits, provided an incomplete picture of how many visits Abramoff and his lobbying team made to the White House.

The task of digging out Abramoff-White House links fell to a House committee that collected the lobbyist’s billing records and e-mails. The House report found 485 lobbying contacts with presidential aides over three years, including 10 with top Bush administration aide Karl Rove.

An unsettled area of law

As part of its security function of protecting the White House complex, the Secret Service uses the log information to conduct background checks on people before daily appointments and visits.
The memorandum of understanding is an unusual step because it deals with an unsettled area of law.

Federal courts will ultimately decide whether records identifying White House visitors and who they are going to see are under the legal control of the Secret Service or are presidential records publicly releasable solely at the discretion of the White House.

The Bush administration’s agreement with the Secret Service “at a minimum will serve to postpone a final resolution of who these records belong to,” said Steven Aftergood, director of the Project on Government Secrecy for the Federation of American Scientists. “This memo reflects the Bush administration’s view of American government, which is that the people’s business should be conducted behind closed doors.”

In the mid-1990s, a conservative group, Judicial Watch, obtained Secret Service entry logs through a lawsuit.

Secret Service records played a significant role in the Whitewater scandal in the 1990s, supplying congressional Republicans with leads to follow in their investigations of the Clintons.

A decade ago, Senate investigators used Secret Service logs to document who visited the White House during the fundraising scandal surrounding President Clinton’s re-election campaign.

© 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Registered Members don't see these ads. Register now it's free!
__________________
Goin' "Double Maverick!"
LoyaltyisaCurse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 6th, 2007, 04:16 AM   #2
wallyburger
Agent Provocateur
 
wallyburger's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: via pacis
Posts: 17,854
A$FN: 15,000
I can't imagine that Bushco would have any special purpose for cloaking visitor records.

__________________
In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way.

Franklin D. Roosevelt

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

--Voltaire
wallyburger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 6th, 2007, 06:27 PM   #3
Absolute Zero
Registered User
 

Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,321
A$FN: 1,102
Smells like a coverup.
__________________
http://outsidethewalls.com/
Absolute Zero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 6th, 2007, 06:41 PM   #4
KloD
Pimping Freedom Ain't Easy
 
Cosmic Defender Champion!
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 8,210
A$FN: 21,373
Where are the folks who believe if you aren't doing anything wrong, why the need for secrecy? Does that only apply for the countries citizens, but not its government?
KloD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 6th, 2007, 09:37 PM   #5
40yearfan
Takin' a bite outa the Niners
 
40yearfan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Buckeye, AZ.
Posts: 24,194
A$FN: 7,001
Quote:
In the mid-1990s, a conservative group, Judicial Watch, obtained Secret Service entry logs through a lawsuit.
Apparently Clinton wasn't eager to give them up either. They had to sue to get them. If they want Bush's, they'll have to do the same thing.
40yearfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 6th, 2007, 09:40 PM   #6
KingofCards
My Hero
 
KingofCards's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 11,897
A$FN: 1,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by KloD View Post
Where are the folks who believe if you aren't doing anything wrong, why the need for secrecy? Does that only apply for the countries citizens, but not its government?

You don't see Bush saying " I got nothing to hide, you can search anything of mine without a warrant. Whats the big deal who visits me? I don't care if everyone knows."
KingofCards is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 7th, 2007, 04:31 AM   #7
wallyburger
Agent Provocateur
 
wallyburger's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: via pacis
Posts: 17,854
A$FN: 15,000
What is that mantra we so often hear on this forum?

If you have nothing to hide, why let it bother you? Aha! Bushco loves to snoop on its citizens, but doesn't like government in the sunshine for itself. Huge portion of Hypocrisy, in this one. I am incline to believe Alberto VO5 Gonzalez had a hand in that memo.
__________________
In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way.

Franklin D. Roosevelt

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

--Voltaire
wallyburger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 7th, 2007, 09:41 AM   #8
LoyaltyisaCurse
Answers Before Questions
 
LoyaltyisaCurse's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Chatsworth, CA
Posts: 12,409
A$FN: 4,800
Quote:
Originally Posted by 40yearfan View Post
Apparently Clinton wasn't eager to give them up either. They had to sue to get them. If they want Bush's, they'll have to do the same thing.
THATS A COP OUT, AS USUAL...
__________________
Goin' "Double Maverick!"
LoyaltyisaCurse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 7th, 2007, 02:37 PM   #9
40yearfan
Takin' a bite outa the Niners
 
40yearfan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Buckeye, AZ.
Posts: 24,194
A$FN: 7,001
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoyaltyisaCurse View Post
THATS A COP OUT, AS USUAL...
How do you figure? I agree with both Clinton and GW. That info is personal. If some nosey reporter wants it, make them sue for it.
40yearfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 7th, 2007, 04:06 PM   #10
nidan
The Terminator
 
nidan's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2002
Location: Scottsdale
Posts: 15,312
A$FN: 12,489
No it's different.

In Clinton's case the information could be had by a FOI request. Bush is trying to make it much harder to find out what he is doing
__________________


DogTv
nidan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 7th, 2007, 06:28 PM   #11
40yearfan
Takin' a bite outa the Niners
 
40yearfan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Buckeye, AZ.
Posts: 24,194
A$FN: 7,001
Quote:
Originally Posted by nidan View Post
No it's different.

In Clinton's case the information could be had by a FOI request. Bush is trying to make it much harder to find out what he is doing

nidan, did you read the article. Clinton refused and they had to sue to get it. It's the exact same thing.
40yearfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 7th, 2007, 08:07 PM   #12
nidan
The Terminator
 
nidan's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2002
Location: Scottsdale
Posts: 15,312
A$FN: 12,489
Nope.

If Bush makes this part of his presidential information, it's all but off limits. You can't sue him for it he will claim executive priviledge.

One you can get the other you can't.
__________________


DogTv

Last edited by nidan; January 7th, 2007 at 09:04 PM.
nidan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 7th, 2007, 08:23 PM   #13
KloD
Pimping Freedom Ain't Easy
 
Cosmic Defender Champion!
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 8,210
A$FN: 21,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by nidan View Post
I you can get the other you can't.
sorry...but, ...WHAT?
KloD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 7th, 2007, 09:04 PM   #14
nidan
The Terminator
 
nidan's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2002
Location: Scottsdale
Posts: 15,312
A$FN: 12,489
Fixed
__________________


DogTv
nidan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 8th, 2007, 07:52 AM   #15
40yearfan
Takin' a bite outa the Niners
 
40yearfan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Buckeye, AZ.
Posts: 24,194
A$FN: 7,001
Quote:
Originally Posted by nidan View Post
Nope.

If Bush makes this part of his presidential information, it's all but off limits. You can't sue him for it he will claim executive priviledge.

One you can get the other you can't.
nidan, you don't think Clinton claimed executive privlege and that's why they had to sue to get it? Do you really believe that if Bush claims exec. priv. that they won't be able to sue him anyway?

Sorry nidan, but you aren't making a whole lot of sense.
40yearfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
boston college, head coach


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Sitemap:1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:55 PM.



Subscribe in a reader
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007 - 2008, PixelFX Studios
Copyright © 2002 - 2006 ArizonaSportsFans.com
Inactive Reminders By Icora Web Design