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Originally posted by Ed B
Well, first of all, don't "LOL" at my comment, I was serious, it's nice to see both sides on the issues.
Fair enough. I just think its funny. I rarely get such statements at times like this.
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Unfortunately, you've begun arguing outside of the realm of logic with statements like "Wait, they will be found" or "It's a moot anyway, as they will be found."
Would it have been better if I said 'I believe that...'?
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You have no more evidence that weapons will be found than I have that they will not be found. It's a hypothetical debate and if you argue it as though there is a provable "right" then that's delusional.
Except I have mountains of proof that they WERE there. Ergo, my argument is slightly more bolstered than the opposite.
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As for fox being a little more objective, just a few posts ago you criticized "liberals" for calling CNN more objective. So you can call your bias "objectivity" but others can't?
I did criticize liberals for CALLING CNN more objective. Doesn't make it true though.
And if you'd like to go through point by point, istance by instance of the 'bias' of CNN, I'd gladly undertake such an endeavor (though could it wait until by daughter can sleep through the night?).
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It seems like you could benefit from taking a little more open minded approach to the situation rather than the "My Team vs Your Team" approach.
I'm quite open minded. I've just hardly ever been convinced the other side has a point (though to be fair, I seem to remember YOU convincing me on a point or two last year).
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These are issues that affect us all and it's absolutely loony to think that either side of the argument is right about everything. Some things the Republicans propose I agree with very much. Some I totally disagree with. If you agree 100% with any politician or political party, fit yourself for a casket because I think at that point you're clinically brain dead.
Who says I agree 100% with the Republicans? Hell, Stout asked me not too long ago what I didn't like about Bush and I gave a pretty long list (which is still growing by the way).
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Fell deeds awake... Now for Wrath... Now for Ruin... and the Red Dawn...
Originally posted by Ed B
I'm suggesting that Iraq's human rights violations don't even make the 50 worst if you ranked the world's nations in order.
Fair enough.
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I've seen that footage too (of course the media played it endlessly to support the administration's stance). There was never a body count released and throwing in the phrase "women and children" is the cheapest emotional plea in the book.
Thus the reason the liberals use it ad nauseum.
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Go search for mass graves in Rwanda and you'll see human rights violations. i'm not denying that Iraq is a nation that practices human rights violations but it is utter bunk to claim that these violations were our motive in attacking them, because there are dozens of nations where the violations are more severe.
I don't remember Rwanda stockpiling WMD or engaging in terrorism. I'm not saying something shouldn't be done about it, but I am showing the difference between Iraq and Rwanda.
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Every human rights violation Iraq practices is also practiced by our "ally" Saudi Arabia. And the Saudi royal family are the worst terrorists on earth in terms of funding terror.
I hate Saudi Arabia.
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Fell deeds awake... Now for Wrath... Now for Ruin... and the Red Dawn...
Re: Re: Re: Of course, the Bush cooking still continues
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Originally posted by Dback Jon
I am glad you can dismiss the issue so easily.
I'm sorry you're so quick to believe utter nonsense. Again I ask, show me proof that takes all of those things I stated into account that there is global warming and I'll take it seriously. As you can't, this is a non-issue.
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SO you rely on the junk science prepaired by the oil companies?
Ah, yes. The old (and tired) liberal interjection of the EVIL oil companies.
No, I'm relying on factual scientific data with dynamic assumptions and realistic data gathering.
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Universally accepted? show me.
You mean, I have to go look it up? It's like a year old!
You'll have to give me some time.
__________________
Fell deeds awake... Now for Wrath... Now for Ruin... and the Red Dawn...
Wayward that is my point - Rwanda has nothing to do with alleged terrorist or WMD ties, therefore they were not a target. By your logic, that means that you're admitting that the reason Iraq was invaded was WMD and terrorist ties.
I agree.
Which supports my original point, which was that it is not accurate to state that human rights violations or mass graves were the reason we invaded Iraq, which some people are claiming now since WMD have not been found.
I do not disagree with your statement. I disagree with anyone who tries to be revisionist and state now that "Well, the human rights violations alone justified the attack........" merely because evidence to support their original claim has not yet been found.
The state forces people to have abortions in china. In North Korea, the Red Cross has found villages reduced to cannibalism. 800,000 people were murdered in 36 hours in Rwanda. <b>THOSE</b> are serious human rights violations. Finding a torture chamber in a police station in baghdad is par for the course for a middle eastern country.
the rightwing dominance is so complete in this country that CNN is LIBERAL??????
They may be liberal by todays standards, but they still are a corporate entity that gives no voice to the average joe. They have think tank talking heads, military figures, corporate shills. They don't challenge the govt. much. Fox is totally off the hook - they are funny sometimes, they never question Dubya's moves.
There is NO people's media, very little independant voice in this country. Yes we have "freedom of speech" - just as long as you don't really get heard; as long as you stick to the script; as long as you play nice. The truth comes out 30 years later, and the rightwingers shrug. Only the Christian white race matters,
Originally posted by Ed B I'm suggesting that Iraq's human rights violations don't even make the 50 worst if you ranked the world's nations in order.
I've seen that footage too (of course the media played it endlessly to support the administration's stance). There was never a body count released and throwing in the phrase "women and children" is the cheapest emotional plea in the book.
If no women and children were found in mass graves then the people at National Public Radio are liars because that is where I heard it. NPR has reporters on the ground where these graves are being excavated and that's what they reported.
Considering Saddam is responsible for at least a million dead Iraqis and a million dead Iranians in the Iran/Iraq war alone and that he actually "used" WMD on the Kurds, I would love to see you find 50 regimes in the world with worse human rights abuses than that.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Of course, the Bush cooking still continues
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Originally posted by Dback Jon
No problem.
Great debating with you - off to a meeting and some real work
Okay, I know this is Newsmax but it references a UPI story showing up in the Times of London. I just checked and their archives don't go back far enough (Dec 2000). Yahoo's archives also don't go back that far. I can't remember where else I saw the stories.
LONDON (UPI) – The hole in the Southern Hemisphere's ozone layer will start shrinking within a decade and should close completely in the next 50 years, the Times of London reported Monday.
The recovery should result in a reduction in levels of ultraviolet radiation around the globe, according to an international panel of scientists in Argentina.
Professor Alan O'Neill, director of the Center for Global Atmospheric Modelling at England's University of Reading, said that the news was a "triumph" for global cooperation.
"We have now got the science of the ozone layer buttoned down, and we can predict with reasonable certainty that it is on the road to recovery."
Information unveiled at the Argentina conference suggests that the global effort to reduce the use of chlorofluorocarbons – the main threat to the ozone layer – is succeeding, just three months after NASA revealed that the size of the ozone hole in the Southern Hemisphere had grown to 11 million square miles and had reached the tip of South America for the first time.
New data indicates that levels of chlorofluorocarbons in the lower atmosphere are starting to drop for the first time since scientists from the British Antarctic Survey discovered the ozone hole in 1985. The work of the British scientists convinced governments around the world to work together.
But scientists at the Argentina conference warn the dramatic recovery could be slowed by as much as 30 years by global warming or by severe volcanic eruptions, according to the Times report.
Recovery of the ozone hole will also depend on continued efforts to keep ozone emissions low. The hole could grow slightly over the next five years before recovery begins.
Copyright 2000 by United Press International. All rights reserved.
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Fell deeds awake... Now for Wrath... Now for Ruin... and the Red Dawn...
Originally posted by andikrist the rightwing dominance is so complete in this country that CNN is LIBERAL??????
They may be liberal by todays standards, but they still are a corporate entity that gives no voice to the average joe. They have think tank talking heads, military figures, corporate shills. They don't challenge the govt. much. Fox is totally off the hook - they are funny sometimes, they never question Dubya's moves.
There is NO people's media, very little independant voice in this country. Yes we have "freedom of speech" - just as long as you don't really get heard; as long as you stick to the script; as long as you play nice. The truth comes out 30 years later, and the rightwingers shrug. Only the Christian white race matters,
Reminds me of DK lyrics, Andi, you old punk rocker you.
"...In 10 years or so we'll read the truth. But by then, it's only so much paper!"
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