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A nice article giving a pretty good where are they now look at the Falluja and Al Sadr militants. This only reinforces my view of the media's unilateral negative depiction of the Iraq campaign.
Cardinal Mike!!
IRAQ: Whatever Happened to the Great Iraqi Uprising?
June 5, 2004: The two hotspots in Iraq, the al Sadr Shia gunmen in the south, and Sunni gunmen in Fallujah, are not so hot anymore. Over a month of fighting between the al Sadr gunmen and coalition troops has left al Sadr with only a few hundred armed followers, and most of them are not willing to fight any more. The original press estimates of al Sadr having 10,000 armed followers were exaggerated (not unusual) and there were probably closer to a few thousand. But these were untrained young men with guns who were no match for the better trained, led and armed coalition troops. Several weeks of fighting left over 300 al Sadr men dead and over a thousand wounded. Many more simply deserted the cause, realizing that continued resistance would just get them killed. So Muqtada al Sadr has agreed to pull out of the southern cities of Najaf and Kufa. More importantly, Iraqi police have been convinced that to go in and retake control of the cities. Al Sadrs men had driven the police out two months ago, and the police only agreed to return after seeing how badly coalition troops had beaten the al Sadr gunmen.
In Fallujah, the marines have played a clever psychological war trick on the Sunni gunmen (Baath Party loyalists and foreign Arab nationalists) still holding out in the city. While Iraqi police and militia brigades patrol the city, the gunmen are free to do what they want, which means that many of them have gone out of control. The gunmen have committed dozens of crimes, from just taking things (without paying) from merchants, to rape. The very numerous, powerful and conservative Sunni Arab clergy of Fallujah, who had previously supported the gunmen, are now preaching against them. The clergy are not asking for the U.S. Marines to return, but public opinion is moving in that direction. That’s because the marines still have Fallujah surrounded, and in the areas controlled by the marines there is law and order, reconstruction projects, lots of jobs and lots of money. The residents of Fallujah are noticing this, as well as the similar situation in most of Iraq.
But groups of Baath Party and al Qaeda terrorists continue to operate in, and around, Baghdad and in Sunni areas up north. The suicide bombings, roadside bombs and shootings of Iraqi “collaborators”, has turned public opinion against the “resistance.” The new Iraqi government has proved to be popular so far, and each week, more trained police and security troops become available. The bloody defeat of the al Sadr gunmen has made the police more confident that if they are confronted by such strong militias, the coalition troops can take care of the situation.
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If we can get the majority of our troops out of there by November and the Iraqi's are taking control of their country once again, that fact along with a much improved economy will have Bush winning by a large margin in the presidential election.
A nice article giving a pretty good where are they now look at the Falluja and Al Sadr militants. This only reinforces my view of the media's unilateral negative depiction of the Iraq campaign.
Cardinal Mike!!
IRAQ: Whatever Happened to the Great Iraqi Uprising?
June 5, 2004: The two hotspots in Iraq, the al Sadr Shia gunmen in the south, and Sunni gunmen in Fallujah, are not so hot anymore. Over a month of fighting between the al Sadr gunmen and coalition troops has left al Sadr with only a few hundred armed followers, and most of them are not willing to fight any more. The original press estimates of al Sadr having 10,000 armed followers were exaggerated (not unusual) and there were probably closer to a few thousand. But these were untrained young men with guns who were no match for the better trained, led and armed coalition troops. Several weeks of fighting left over 300 al Sadr men dead and over a thousand wounded. Many more simply deserted the cause, realizing that continued resistance would just get them killed. So Muqtada al Sadr has agreed to pull out of the southern cities of Najaf and Kufa. More importantly, Iraqi police have been convinced that to go in and retake control of the cities. Al Sadrs men had driven the police out two months ago, and the police only agreed to return after seeing how badly coalition troops had beaten the al Sadr gunmen.
In Fallujah, the marines have played a clever psychological war trick on the Sunni gunmen (Baath Party loyalists and foreign Arab nationalists) still holding out in the city. While Iraqi police and militia brigades patrol the city, the gunmen are free to do what they want, which means that many of them have gone out of control. The gunmen have committed dozens of crimes, from just taking things (without paying) from merchants, to rape. The very numerous, powerful and conservative Sunni Arab clergy of Fallujah, who had previously supported the gunmen, are now preaching against them. The clergy are not asking for the U.S. Marines to return, but public opinion is moving in that direction. That’s because the marines still have Fallujah surrounded, and in the areas controlled by the marines there is law and order, reconstruction projects, lots of jobs and lots of money. The residents of Fallujah are noticing this, as well as the similar situation in most of Iraq.
But groups of Baath Party and al Qaeda terrorists continue to operate in, and around, Baghdad and in Sunni areas up north. The suicide bombings, roadside bombs and shootings of Iraqi “collaborators”, has turned public opinion against the “resistance.” The new Iraqi government has proved to be popular so far, and each week, more trained police and security troops become available. The bloody defeat of the al Sadr gunmen has made the police more confident that if they are confronted by such strong militias, the coalition troops can take care of the situation.
Thank God the fighting's over. I'm sure the families of the five soldiers killed this weekend will be happy to hear it.
Sure there were. But there were less than 200 casualties a year ago when Bush declared an end to hostilites in front of the "Mission Accomplished" banner. We're now over 800, so that would be like 75% of all casualties being suffered in WWII after VE Day.
Sure there were. But there were less than 200 casualties a year ago when Bush declared an end to hostilites in front of the "Mission Accomplished" banner. We're now over 800, so that would be like 75% of all casualties being suffered in WWII after VE Day.
Bush declared an end to major combat operations. Meaning that there was no longer a credible enemy armed force to deal with on a strategic scale. It did not mean that it was the end to all resistance or even large scale tactical operations. Just when I think that andi is the worst offender in illogic on this board you come along and provide the dumbest comparison I have read in years, congratulations.
Bush declared an end to major combat operations. Meaning that there was no longer a credible enemy armed force to deal with on a strategic scale. It did not mean that it was the end to all resistance or even large scale tactical operations. Just when I think that andi is the worst offender in illogic on this board you come along and provide the dumbest comparison I have read in years, congratulations.
Cardinal Mike!!
Are you saying that Sadr's army didn't present a more "credible enemy armed force to deal with on a strategic scale" than the Iraqi army?
Are you saying that Sadr's army didn't present a more "credible enemy armed force to deal with on a strategic scale" than the Iraqi army?
You could've fooled me.
Those guys are a joke. A bad joke, but a joke. They have the military capacity of the Crips and the Bloods. Yeah, they can kill a few of our soldiers, but they have zero chance of doing any real damage to our army. The main danger was the majority of the populace rallying behind them, but this does not seem to be the case. If anything, it looks like they are losing popular support.
__________________
We live in a world which is full of misery and ignorance, and the plain duty of each and all of us is to try to make the little corner he can influence somewhat less miserable and somewhat less ignorant than it was before he entered it.
Just when I think that andi is the worst offender in illogic on this board you come along and provide the dumbest comparison I have read in years, congratulations.
Cardinal Mike!!
Dude, come on Mike, I thought I was at the top of your illogical list.
When the Al-Sadr militia get some tanks and training then maybe you have a point here.
I think the miliita route is the only way to fight the U.S. especially in a desert terrain.
In that arena with no air support an army has no hope against the U.S. Small hidden enemies do though.
Not that these guys could ever beat us, the only way to stop us is to use small ambushes, suicide bombings and hope that the American public starts to turn against the War. It won't work forever, we are still kicking the crap out of them casualty wise, but the American public doesn't like drawn out conflict that involves American young men and women losing their lives daily. Once public opinion starts to turn, negatively, we start to beat ourselves.
Actually, I believe it was you that initially made the dumb comparison. I was just illustrating the logical fallacy of your misguided metaphor.
Thanks for publicly acknowledging the stupidity of comparing WWII and the invasion of Iraq.
Actually I was comparing police action and peace keeping in a post-war theatre. You decided to take it to the limits of stupid by comparing actual war time operations vs police action/peace keeping. If you don't see a problem with that, then I feel really sorry for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Cards
Dude, come on Mike, I thought I was at the top of your illogical list.
Not even close possibly not even in the top 10 for what its worth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerouac9
Are you saying that Sadr's army didn't present a more "credible enemy armed force to deal with on a strategic scale" than the Iraqi army?
You could've fooled me.
Yes that is exactly what I am saying. Al Sadr's Medhi army presented a tactical challenge in a 3 city area, hardly something requiring theatre wide strategic planning and operations. It was engaged and neutralized on the tactical level through the use of small marine units performing probing and seek and destroy missions. At this current time it appears that Al Sadr is no longer in control of any forces not directly with him since they did not uphold the cease fire he asked for and consequently were killed. This is not to say that they will still not inflict coalition casualties, just that it won't be in a large scale organized resistance movement. Same with the AQ and Baath insurgents around the Falluja area. If this were another time or if we were another nation with lesser ideals and morals we would easily quell any unrest at all through the application of indiscriminate massive firepower, ie. turning Falluja into rubble to make an example of disobedience. Fortunately we are better than the dictatorship we removed and because of this we use tactics and rules of engagement that protect civilians, many times at the detriment of coalition troops.
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