SUTTILL

As I was browsing the news today at lunch, reading about the rotating of more troops into Iraq, Bush's speech about how we are pushing for "Freedom and Democracy" in the Middleeast, an old song by Billy Preston (I think) came to mind...

"WAR, WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR ...ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!"

I am sorry folks, I just don't see anything good coming out of this for the US. We have lost whatever credibility we had as a world leader and I think we are in no position to be advancing or imposing our own values for the regiion, especially by force.

Brian in Mesa

You're absolutely right.

We should, as a country, hide our heads in the sand like most of the world.



No one ever said this war would be easy, but I'm glad we're fighting it. All my life Iraq (as well as Iran, etc) have been screwing with us and their own neighboring countries. It's about time someone does something to clean up that area. Maybe if we can create a truly free Iraq, some of the governments of neighboring countries will fall at the hands of their own citizens who also want freedom. You never know. Could be we start a domino effect.

As for our use of force...it was spelled out in the last resolution Iraq broke with the UN. Either agree to the terms of the resolution or there will be a response of force. When the rest of the UN fumbled...we picked up the ball and took action.

In case you haven't figured it out yet - we, as a country, do not worry about how other countries view us. We would be very limited if we did.

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"If Chuck is Solo, Larkin is his Fett!" - Morgan

SUTTILL

Sorry Brian, but it is assinine for us to go around invading other countries when we are not being threatened by them. As you may have read recently, Iraq was trying to negotiate a peace deal with us before the war started which we just snubbed. There is a little thing called "sovreignty", which I probably mispelled, but that has been a pretty important concept in international relations for hundreds of years. The "Bush doctrine" basically throws that out the window. No one says we should hide our head in the stands, but to start an all out war with no end in sight, was a definite error, in my humble opinion.

Why should we care about what other countries think about us? Good question. I think that's because they are inhabited by human beings that we are no better than, that have families and kids they don't want to get shot up and who don't want to have to worry about having US troops take over their cities, etc. Not to mention that some of these people who inhabit these countries are being encouraged by this War to engage in even more terrorism.

I'll shut up now.

Renz

Yeah. The Iraqis had it so good under Saddam. 95% of Iraqis are glad we are there. The terrorists who are killing our troops, as well as innocent Iraqis, are Saddam loyalists and foreign Islamic extremists. Should we let them win and pull out? Should we put Saddam and his torturers and killers back in power?

Iraq broke the treaty it signed after the first Gulf War seven times! Remember that war when Iraq invaded Kuwait and violated their sovereignty?

I admit that our exit strategy wasn't as easy as we thought, but that is water over the dam now. IMO Iraq will be a much better place after we leave than it was under Saddam. And the world is better off without Saddam as well.

Unfortunately, evil regimes do make war necessary sometimes. France, Austria, Italy, Belgium, The Netherlands and most of Europe were freed from Nazi tyranny because the U.S. stepped up to the plate for them. South Korea would be under the yoke of Kim Jong-Il if not for us.

If we didn't care about Iraq's people we would have pulled out by now. We are there because we believe it is our duty to help them rebuild after decades of terror and neglect under Saddam.

We aren't conquerors, we are liberators. Most of Iraq and the world understands that.

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Krangthebrain

I hope that you really don't believe that.

Most Iraqis are glad that Saddam is gone, but most aren't happy that we are there.

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26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.

Ryanwb

If we didn't have war, this country would have never been free of the British. The German's would have plowed right through Eastern Europe. War is a necessary evil in most stages of history. How much different would the landscape of the world be for 6 million jews if Hitler was taken out when he was first thought of as a threat.

So snuggle up in your warm little bed tonight and consider yourself lucky you are so protected that you can make assinine statements that you will never have to back up because our military will never let anyone else touch a hair on your head

justAndy

the US got into it with lies and propaganda, and suppressing American's right of protest and free speech. It was considered treason to tell any young man that he should resist the draft,
During the war, it is documented that some American companies got insider deals to produce substandard war materials that got American soldiers killed. They were never prosecuted for those crimes. The crippling reparations the Germans were forced to pay because of American pressure led to the rise of the Nazis.
Any war that America gets into that is not truly for national defense, these wars of conquest and domination, only lead to tragedy. All the jingoistic, brainwash flaghugging may placate the collaboraters of the New Fascism, the tools. the "I was just following orders", but it speaks NOTHING to Truth, Freedom, or Justice, All empires fall. If you think we aren't the modern version of the Roman empire....

Krangthebrain

Do you see any differences in those wars?

Revolutionary War- We fought for our own independence.
WWII- We fought to end Nazi aggression and to protect our allies.

It's great to be protected, but it isn't so great having our leaders make us targets over the years. Keep believing that we are targets "because we're free".

That's not why we're targets; we're targets because of bad foreign policy.

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26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.

Krangthebrain

I must add that I'm not a pacifist.

I believe wars that didn't begin with American aggression, are good wars. The Gulf War was completely necessary, Vietnam was not, Korea was necessary, WWII+WWI were necessary, Civil War was necessary...etc. etc. etc.

My point is, I'm not so sure that this war is necessary. I don't believe that Saddam poses any threat, and no evidence has proven that he was involved with al Qaeda (and none will ever be found).

Our regime told us that they knew where the WMDs were, that Saddam was building more, and that he had links with al Qaeda. Nothing backs up these claims, and we are losing American lives everyday. The sad thing is, we can't afford to pull out now, and no matter what we do, we are screwed.

Iraq will not have a Democratic government, the people will insert an Islamic Theocracy, which of course will actually work hand-in-hand with terrorists..

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26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.

ASUCHRIS

I don't want to piddle in semantics, but if you believe that the U.S. foreign policy was to prevent the spread of communism, then Vietnam was "paying the premium" on this policy, rendering it neccesary. Just my 2 cents...

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"For me, I just want to be the best football player on the field at all times."


Big Bang


"I think about the game 24-7. I don't think there's an hour that goes by that I don't think about basketball."

Amare

Krangthebrain

I don't believe that obviously .

What good did Vietnam do? We killed 100,000's of Vietnamese, lost approxiamately 50,000 American boys, and to this day Vietnam is a Communist country.

Vietnam taught us a lesson. We shouldn't try to overthrow governments in other countries just because we believe our system is "better" than their system.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't overthrow regimes such as the Taliban. We should overthrow regimes that legitimately threaten our national security. Iraq did not threaten our national security, never has and never will (but that could easily change if an Islamic Fundamentalist government is instituted).

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26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.

Renz

I think you need to review your history. It was the British and French that wanted reparations from Germany after WWI, not the U.S.

The U.S. made no financial or territorial demands on Germany after the war. It was primarily France that demanded reparations to help rebuild areas in Northern France that were decimated by the fighting.

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Renz

In your opinion. Islam will definitely be part of the new constitution because it is such a huge part of their culture, but I don't believe it will become a theocracy like Iran.

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SUTTILL

The current war was not necessary.


True, many, including myself, are glad that Saddam is not in power. But now we are the ones in power in Iraq, and we are the target. We see ourselves as liberators, but many in the arab world see us as agressors, occupiers, etc., and now we are the target for their frustrations. Unlike Bush, I will not say "bring it on". This is a bad thing, an unnecessary thing, and it is going to get worse before it ever gets better. This War was a very serious mistake.

Our whole national focus, not to mention a substantial amount of our nation's finances, is centered on Iraq. There is so many other good things for our country we could be focusing on instead, it is almost unbelievable.

Renz

We weren't overthrowing a government in Vietnam. We were defending the South from communist invaders.

And if you want to compare communism and democracy, our system is better.

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