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Old November 23rd, 2004, 12:31 PM   #1
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War Crimes Indictment for Bush?


The following article from the Toronto Star raises some interesting points:

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con.../www.rabble.ca

Nov. 16, 2004. 01:00 AM


Should Canada indict Bush?


THOMAS WALKOM

When U.S. President George W. Bush arrives in Ottawa — probably later this year — should he be welcomed? Or should he be charged with war crimes?

It's an interesting question. On the face of it, Bush seems a perfect candidate for prosecution under Canada's Crimes against Humanity and War Crimes Act.

This act was passed in 2000 to bring Canada's ineffectual laws in line with the rules of the new International Criminal Court. While never tested, it lays out sweeping categories under which a foreign leader like Bush could face arrest.

In particular, it holds that anyone who commits a war crime, even outside Canada, may be prosecuted by our courts. What is a war crime? According to the statute, it is any conduct defined as such by "customary international law" or by conventions that Canada has adopted.

War crimes also specifically include any breach of the 1949 Geneva Conventions, such as torture, degradation, wilfully depriving prisoners of war of their rights "to a fair and regular trial," launching attacks "in the knowledge that such attacks will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians" and deportation of persons from an area under occupation.

Outside of one well-publicized (and quickly squelched) attempt in Belgium, no one has tried to formally indict Bush. But both Oxfam International and the U.S. group Human Rights Watch have warned that some of the actions undertaken by the U.S. and its allies, particularly in Iraq, may fall under the war crime rubric.

The case for the prosecution looks quite promising. First, there is the fact of the Iraq war itself. After 1945, Allied tribunals in Nuremberg and Tokyo — in an astonishing precedent — ruled that states no longer had the unfettered right to invade other countries and that leaders who started such conflicts could be tried for waging illegal war.

Concurrently, the new United Nations outlawed all aggressive wars except those authorized by its Security Council.

Today, a strong case could be made that Bush violated the Nuremberg principles by invading Iraq. Indeed, U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan has already labelled that war illegal in terms of the U.N. Charter.

Second, there is the manner in which the U.S. conducted this war.

The mistreatment of prisoners at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison is a clear contravention of the Geneva Accord. The U.S. is also deporting selected prisoners to camps outside of Iraq (another contravention). U.S. press reports also talk of shadowy prisons in Jordan run by the CIA, where suspects are routinely tortured. And the estimated civilian death toll of 100,000 may well contravene the Geneva Accords prohibition against the use of excessive force.

Canada's war crimes law specifically permits prosecution not only of those who carry out such crimes but of the military and political superiors who allow them to happen.

What has emerged since Abu Ghraib shows that officials at the highest levels of the Bush administration permitted and even encouraged the use of torture.

Given that Bush, as he likes to remind everyone, is the U.S. military's commander-in-chief, it is hard to argue he bears no responsibility.

Then there is Guantanamo Bay. The U.S. says detainees there do not fall under the Geneva accords. That's an old argument.

In 1946, Japanese defendants explained their mistreatment of prisoners of war by noting that their country had never signed any of the Geneva Conventions. The Japanese were convicted anyway.

Oddly enough, Canada may be one of the few places where someone like Bush could be brought to justice. Impeachment in the U.S. is most unlikely. And, at Bush's insistence, the new international criminal court has no jurisdiction over any American.

But a Canadian war crimes charge, too, would face many hurdles. Bush was furious last year when Belgians launched a war crimes suit in their country against him — so furious that Belgium not only backed down under U.S. threats but changed its law to prevent further recurrences.

As well, according to a foreign affairs spokesperson, visiting heads of state are immune from prosecution when in Canada on official business. If Ottawa wanted to act, it would have to wait until Bush was out of office — or hope to catch him when he comes up here to fish.

And, of course, Canada's government would have to want to act. War crimes prosecutions are political decisions that must be authorized by the federal attorney-general.

Still, Prime Minister Paul Martin has staked out his strong opposition to war crimes. This was his focus in a September address to the U.N. General Assembly.

There, Martin was talking specifically about war crimes committed by militiamen in far-off Sudan. But as my friends on the Star's editorial board noted in one of their strong defences of concerted international action against war crimes, the rule must be, "One law for all."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas Walkom writes every Tuesday. twalkom@thestar.ca.
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Old November 23rd, 2004, 12:42 PM   #2
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Easy for a canadian journalist to write stuff up without legal proof.
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Old November 23rd, 2004, 12:43 PM   #3
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If they did I say we invade. That would guarentee they keep their nose out of our business. It would be americas personal camping grounds/national park.
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Old November 23rd, 2004, 01:03 PM   #4
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If they did I say we invade. That would guarentee they keep their nose out of our business. It would be americas personal camping grounds/national park.
If they ever did something like this, Canada would become about the next, oh, fifteen or twenty states. Screw their provinces; let's divide our new territory on our own terms
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Old November 23rd, 2004, 01:16 PM   #5
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The only problem lies with the diplomatic immunity shield. If he is there on "official " business he is protected. Now if he was go to Canada on a fishing trip, then he is fair game. I hear then walleye are biting real nice, and there is always the Salmon run.

Can you imagine a rumble between the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and the Secret Service ? I'll put my money on Dudley Doright.
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Old November 23rd, 2004, 01:18 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by wallyburger
Can you imagine a rumble between the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and the Secret Service ? I'll put my money on Dudley Doright.

I hope you dont bet often lol
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Old November 23rd, 2004, 01:23 PM   #7
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Who was the last president (in office or out) that went fishing in a foreign country?
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Old November 23rd, 2004, 01:30 PM   #8
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Can't bet against these guys.
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Old November 23rd, 2004, 04:24 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wallyburger
The only problem lies with the diplomatic immunity shield. If he is there on "official " business he is protected. Now if he was go to Canada on a fishing trip, then he is fair game. I hear then walleye are biting real nice, and there is always the Salmon run.

Can you imagine a rumble between the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and the Secret Service ? I'll put my money on Dudley Doright.
Whew! Glad to hear the Prez has a defense, otherwise it looks like the charges would probably stick! Then we'd have Dick Cheney running the Country! Yikes! Oh, my bad, Dick is running the Country, forgot about that part.
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Old November 23rd, 2004, 05:45 PM   #10
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Whew! Glad to hear the Prez has a defense, otherwise it looks like the charges would probably stick! Then we'd have Dick Cheney running the Country! Yikes! Oh, my bad, Dick is running the Country, forgot about that part.
Oh no. If Bush was deposed, Cheney would be part of the package. I believe it would take major surgery to seperate the two.
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Old November 23rd, 2004, 06:11 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SUTTILL
The following article from the Toronto Star raises some interesting points:

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con.../www.rabble.ca

Nov. 16, 2004. 01:00 AM


Should Canada indict Bush?


THOMAS WALKOM

When U.S. President George W. Bush arrives in Ottawa — probably later this year — should he be welcomed? Or should he be charged with war crimes?

It's an interesting question. On the face of it, Bush seems a perfect candidate for prosecution under Canada's Crimes against Humanity and War Crimes Act.

This act was passed in 2000 to bring Canada's ineffectual laws in line with the rules of the new International Criminal Court. While never tested, it lays out sweeping categories under which a foreign leader like Bush could face arrest.

In particular, it holds that anyone who commits a war crime, even outside Canada, may be prosecuted by our courts. What is a war crime? According to the statute, it is any conduct defined as such by "customary international law" or by conventions that Canada has adopted.

War crimes also specifically include any breach of the 1949 Geneva Conventions, such as torture, degradation, wilfully depriving prisoners of war of their rights "to a fair and regular trial," launching attacks "in the knowledge that such attacks will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians" and deportation of persons from an area under occupation.

Outside of one well-publicized (and quickly squelched) attempt in Belgium, no one has tried to formally indict Bush. But both Oxfam International and the U.S. group Human Rights Watch have warned that some of the actions undertaken by the U.S. and its allies, particularly in Iraq, may fall under the war crime rubric.

The case for the prosecution looks quite promising. First, there is the fact of the Iraq war itself. After 1945, Allied tribunals in Nuremberg and Tokyo — in an astonishing precedent — ruled that states no longer had the unfettered right to invade other countries and that leaders who started such conflicts could be tried for waging illegal war.

Concurrently, the new United Nations outlawed all aggressive wars except those authorized by its Security Council.

Today, a strong case could be made that Bush violated the Nuremberg principles by invading Iraq. Indeed, U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan has already labelled that war illegal in terms of the U.N. Charter.

Second, there is the manner in which the U.S. conducted this war.

The mistreatment of prisoners at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison is a clear contravention of the Geneva Accord. The U.S. is also deporting selected prisoners to camps outside of Iraq (another contravention). U.S. press reports also talk of shadowy prisons in Jordan run by the CIA, where suspects are routinely tortured. And the estimated civilian death toll of 100,000 may well contravene the Geneva Accords prohibition against the use of excessive force.

Canada's war crimes law specifically permits prosecution not only of those who carry out such crimes but of the military and political superiors who allow them to happen.

What has emerged since Abu Ghraib shows that officials at the highest levels of the Bush administration permitted and even encouraged the use of torture.

Given that Bush, as he likes to remind everyone, is the U.S. military's commander-in-chief, it is hard to argue he bears no responsibility.

Then there is Guantanamo Bay. The U.S. says detainees there do not fall under the Geneva accords. That's an old argument.

In 1946, Japanese defendants explained their mistreatment of prisoners of war by noting that their country had never signed any of the Geneva Conventions. The Japanese were convicted anyway.

Oddly enough, Canada may be one of the few places where someone like Bush could be brought to justice. Impeachment in the U.S. is most unlikely. And, at Bush's insistence, the new international criminal court has no jurisdiction over any American.

But a Canadian war crimes charge, too, would face many hurdles. Bush was furious last year when Belgians launched a war crimes suit in their country against him — so furious that Belgium not only backed down under U.S. threats but changed its law to prevent further recurrences.

As well, according to a foreign affairs spokesperson, visiting heads of state are immune from prosecution when in Canada on official business. If Ottawa wanted to act, it would have to wait until Bush was out of office — or hope to catch him when he comes up here to fish.

And, of course, Canada's government would have to want to act. War crimes prosecutions are political decisions that must be authorized by the federal attorney-general.

Still, Prime Minister Paul Martin has staked out his strong opposition to war crimes. This was his focus in a September address to the U.N. General Assembly.

There, Martin was talking specifically about war crimes committed by militiamen in far-off Sudan. But as my friends on the Star's editorial board noted in one of their strong defences of concerted international action against war crimes, the rule must be, "One law for all."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas Walkom writes every Tuesday. twalkom@thestar.ca.

I thought Iran would be the next place our troops would be heading, but if this reporter is correct and they try to detain Bush and charge him with war crimes, it'll be lights out in the northern provinces.
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Old November 23rd, 2004, 06:12 PM   #12
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Agreed. If Canada were to try to arrest the leader of our country, it would be the last thing they ever did as a soveriegn nation.
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I wasn't serious in my post.. I don't really give a crap.
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Old November 23rd, 2004, 07:09 PM   #13
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Agreed. If Canada were to try to arrest the leader of our country, it would be the last thing they ever did as a soveriegn nation.
They need to chill...we'll do it ourselves, eventually.
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Old November 23rd, 2004, 07:12 PM   #14
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This is disgusting. The thought of even trying to discipline the leader of another foreign nation for war crimes is not something a civilized nation would never do.
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Old November 23rd, 2004, 07:24 PM   #15
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This is disgusting. The thought of even trying to discipline the leader of another foreign nation for war crimes is not something a civilized nation would never do.
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