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First off, religion isn't being encoded into law..that will never happen. That hyperbole isn't needed.
However, if religious beliefs form the basis of your opinion on certain things, then that is how they are formed. It doesn't matter WHY you have your opinion, just that you DO have your opinion. And you should vote as your opinion suggests you should.
If you are the majority, then your opinions will carry the day...that is the way our system is set up. Regardless of how they are formed...if the majority of the nation were Satanists, we'd have a Pentagram office...that's simply how the system was created (and it was well created).
Secular folks shouldn't interpret as anything other than different people having an opposite opinion from them. Happens every day, and its not just religion that causes differences.
Someone should NOT separate religion from their opinions if that is what forms it. That wouldn't be them being true to themselves. And you shouldn't do it with your opinions and whatever formed them.
It's mildly offensive that you even suggest that religious people should withhold their opinions simply because they were formed based on their religious beliefs.
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I'm the anti-TNT. I don't do drama.
Just vote Republican. Then you won't have to do all this soul searching.
40 are you Karl Rove's unlce or something?
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At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide.
How do you do this or not as the case may be. Red made an interesting comment.
If your conscience is driven by your religion, how do you seperate the two. Should you seperate the two ?
How should secular folks interpret this ? How do we understand this when we don't share the same frame of reference ?
How do we avoid religion being encoded into law. Should we avoid this.
The pendulum always swings one way then back, in a country where Porn is a many multibillion $ industry, I'd say you're in no danger of religion getting coded into our law system, it's already there it ebbs and flows like anything else, if these types win the day and ban sex and drinking it'll take about two seconds for the true majority to pop out.
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At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide.
First off, religion isn't being encoded into law..that will never happen.
If you are the majority, then your opinions will carry the day...
Please explain. If religion isn't being encoded into law, how did gay marriage become banned in Oregon and other states with more to come?
We know that most christians believe being gay is wrong. They voted their conscience based on their religious beliefs and now it is law.
I didn't say it isn't fair, only that you statement is false.
Please explain. If religion isn't being encoded into law, how did gay marriage become banned in Oregon and other states with more to come?
We know that most christians believe being gay is wrong. They voted their conscience based on their religious beliefs and now it is law.
I didn't say it isn't fair, only that you statement is false.
True. Same applies to laws regulating drinking,pornography,gambling,public nudity,prostitution,polygamy... All based on religious beliefs of one sort or another. Prohibitions against murder and stealing are in the 10 Commandments. Also prohibited by our laws.
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5-11 with 'em. 5-11 without 'em.
True. Same applies to laws regulating drinking,pornography,gambling,public nudity,prostitution,polygamy... All based on religious beliefs of one sort or another. Prohibitions against murder and stealing are in the 10 Commandments. Also prohibited by our laws.
Where would we be without religion? A bunch of drunk, porno addicted, gambling, naked, selling our bodies, marrying everyone, murdering thiefs.
Whew...sure am thankful we were all under the wings of religion. How else would we have known how to live.
True. Same applies to laws regulating drinking,pornography,gambling,public nudity,prostitution,polygamy... All based on religious beliefs of one sort or another. Prohibitions against murder and stealing are in the 10 Commandments. Also prohibited by our laws.
It's an interesting question, what was asked by Nidan is something governments struggle with, like killing someone that converts to Christianity, that's pure religion coded into law.
Secular vs Non.
It's the reason freedom of religion was written into the constitution, not to protect the majority, the majority were christians but to protect everyone else from them.
It's why we don't allow holding public prayers in public schools, not because the majority want it that way or not but because you need to change the constitution first, if our government does it, then it can't be to promote a religion.
If overnight we suddenly became Islamic by majority, then the Christians would be the first ones screaming freedom of relgion at every turn as the majority tried to put the Koran in our courthouses and in our schools, why people can't see that you are free to do as you wish but in your public life we have no need of that is beyond me.
It's a simple idea, believe as you wish, try to convince people if you wish, if it's a public dime, drop it and back away...
Now if you are speaking of coding in laws that mirror your beliefs, there's nothing wrong with it if it passes a constitutional test, dosen't matter why you vote that way.
It's pure opinion as to saying that's wrong, I believe in some cases it is but it's person by person as to reasons why we do something, still you could vote to mandate public prayer in schools till your blue in the face and if you don't amend the constitution, you're wasting your time.
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At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide.
Therein lies the crux of the problem and the some might say the dramatic difference in how we perceive the world.
Note: This is how I see it from both my view and how I see the view of the religious folks. I expect theyt will differ and that is this issue.
Homosexuality and associated issues are a matter of biology and hurt nobody. Hence I see no need for laws except to prevent discrimination.
Most of the laws relating to drinking,pornography,gambling,public nudity,prostitution,polygamy are driven by religion. From where I stand we regulate all of these far to much. Many european countries get by with far less regualtion and have far less problems.
Murder certainly harms someone so is a valid target for laws.
So it seems to me we already have too much of our legal system driven by a religiouly inspired sence of morals. More of this scares the living *** out of me. Why because it seems that sooner or later somebody will want to regualte how I can behave, so it seems appropriate to stand up for the rights of folks like Jon, before they come for me.
Unfortunatly I can also see where this view would horrify somebody who believes this things are evil based on their religious beliefs and I have no idea how that dicotomey should be resolved.
Please explain. If religion isn't being encoded into law, how did gay marriage become banned in Oregon and other states with more to come?
We know that most christians believe being gay is wrong. They voted their conscience based on their religious beliefs and now it is law.
I didn't say it isn't fair, only that you statement is false.
Show me one law that has any religion involved with it. The government can't put religion into laws.
However, the religious values of a people's votes have created/passed/repealed laws.
Very big difference in the values of a people enacting laws versus "religion" being encoded into law.
The majority of people in the U.S. are religious. They vote in laws based on their religious beliefs. Religion doesn't vote in anything.
If the majority of the country wants to ban same sex marriage, then that's the way it will be. I personally think it's a discriminatory move and it will be a bad law. I also think available abortion is a bad law. Science and religion combined created my feelings on these two issues.
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I'm the anti-TNT. I don't do drama.
It seems that Nidan's question presumes that matters of conscience derived from religion are somehow less moral or legitimate than those derived from secular sources. Which, of course, is just as wrong as arguing the converse. The source from which laws are enacted is irrelevant, so long as the particular law doesn't violate a person's constitutional rights.
And I think that this debate even occurs understates how commonly misunderstood is the mythical separation between church and state in the Constitution.
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