Dback Jon

The descent into the dark ages continues........And we will never be able to protest ANYTHING another government does to our POWs

U.S. OKs Evidence Gained Through Torture

16 minutes ago Top Stories - AP


By MICHAEL J. SNIFFEN, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Evidence gained by torture can be used by the U.S. military in deciding whether to imprison a foreigner indefinitely at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, as an enemy combatant, the government says.


Statements produced under torture have been inadmissible in U.S. courts for about 70 years. But the U.S. military panels reviewing the detention of 550 foreigners as enemy combatants at the U.S. naval base in Cuba are allowed to use such evidence, Principal Deputy Associate Attorney General Brian Boyle acknowledged at a U.S. District Court hearing Thursday.


Some of the prisoners have filed lawsuits challenging their detention without charges for up to three years so far. At the hearing, Boyle urged District Judge Richard J. Leon to throw their cases out.


Attorneys for the prisoners argued that some were held solely on evidence gained by torture, which they said violated fundamental fairness and U.S. due process standards. But Boyle argued in a similar hearing Wednesday that the detainees "have no constitutional rights enforceable in this court."


Leon asked whether a detention based solely on evidence gathered by torture would be illegal, because "torture is illegal. We all know that."


Boyle replied that if the military's combatant status review tribunals "determine that evidence of questionable provenance were reliable, nothing in the due process clause (of the Constitution) prohibits them from relying on it."


Leon asked whether there were any restrictions on using torture-induced evidence.


Boyle replied that the United States never would adopt a policy that would have barred it from acting on evidence that could have prevented the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks even if the data came from questionable practices like torture by a foreign power.


Several arguments underlie the U.S. court ban on products of torture.


"About 70 years ago, the Supreme Court stopped the use of evidence produced by third-degree tactics largely on the theory that it was totally unreliable," Harvard Law Professor Philip B. Heymann, a former deputy U.S. attorney general, said in an interview. Subsequent high court rulings were based on revulsion at "the unfairness and brutality of it and later on the idea that confessions ought to be free and uncompelled."


Leon asked whether U.S. courts could review detentions based on evidence from torture conducted by U.S. personnel.


Boyle said torture was against U.S. policy and any allegations of it would be "forwarded through command channels for military discipline." He added, "I don't think anything remotely like torture has occurred at Guantanamo" but noted that some U.S. soldiers there had been disciplined for misconduct, including a female interrogator who removed her blouse during questioning.


The International Committee of the Red Cross said Tuesday it has given the Bush administration a confidential report critical of U.S. treatment of Guantanamo detainees. The New York Times reported the Red Cross described the psychological and physical coercion used at Guantanamo as "tantamount to torture."


The combatant status review tribunals comprise three colonels and lieutenant colonels. They were set up after the Supreme Court ruled in June that the detainees could ask U.S. courts to see to it they had a proceeding in which to challenge their detention. The panels have reviewed 440 of the prisoners so far but have released only one.


The military also set up an annual administrative review which considers whether the detainee still presents a danger to the United States but doesn't review enemy combatant status. Administrative reviews have been completed for 161.


Boyle argued these procedures are sufficient to satisfy the high court.


Noting that detainees cannot have lawyers at the combatant status review proceedings and cannot see any secret evidence against them, detainee attorney Wes Powell argued "there is no meaningful opportunity in the (proceedings) to rebut the government's claims."





Leon suggested that if federal judges start reviewing the military's evidence for holding foreign detainees there could be "practical and collateral consequences ... at a time of war."

And he suggested an earlier Supreme Court ruling might limit judges to checking only on whether detention orders were lawfully issued and review panels were legally established.

Leon and Judge Joyce Hens Green, who held a similar hearing Wednesday, said they would try to rule soon on whether the 59 detainees may proceed with their lawsuits.

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R.I.P Tim Minnick

The KING of Cards

swd1974

torture is very underated.

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Goal for 2008: Half as many penalties.

Stout

About time. The sooner we realize that constantly playing by the rules only handcuffs us and gives the terrorists the advantage, the sooner something real can be done. I guarantee you the thought of actual real retribution would make many terrorists tremble.

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Veni, vidi, vici--this goes out to all our NFC West chums

Thank you for breaking the circle of suck, Bidwill--Stout, December 7 2008.

Homer Simpson

"If you torture him, he will tell you who started the ******* Chicago Fire. That doesn't necessaarily make it %$^*ing so."

Nice Guy Eddie, Reservoir Dogs

40yearfan

Avondale_Larry

It's already been said, but the reason that torture is held to be inadmissable is because it's unreliable.

Let's say you were picked up in Mexico on the way to Rocky Point. They take you to the local jail and ask you a few questions. Then they ask you some more questions while your genitals are hooked up to a wall outlet, and your fingernails are being ripped out. You'll admit to whatever they want you to admit to. You'll invent exquisite details of your guilt.

And then they take you off to prison based on your admission.

Think you might have a problem with that process?

CardinalMike

We are not torturing the prisoners in Gitmo. Even the article above doesn't make that claim. It's a very sensationalistic article if you actually took the time to read it you would have seen that. The only quote I see where there is any claim to torture being used is this:

Not exactly your creative scenario of the evil brown cops shaking down the poor helpless white tourists now is it?

Also I find it quite interesting that in this scenario that you attempt to have the reader identify with the terrorists. Do you really see the terrorists as helpless innocents who are being railroaded by the evil US Government? If so, then I have to ask, Who's side are you on?

Cardinal Mike!!

Renz

According to the International Red Cross, which is not the same as the American Red Cross BTW, sleep deprivation is defined as "torture". The IRC has their own agenda and it isn't commensurate with that of keeping the United States safe from terrorists.

Sorry, but if some terrorist plots can be foiled by keeping some guys awake for a few days then I'm all for it!

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conraddobler

Yeah this is great, let's just shred the constitution while we are at it that pesky document that makes fighting terrorist so much harder than it has to be.

Box knives 49$

Plane tickets 2200$

Watching the US destroy a lot of what it stands for..... Priceless.

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At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide.

~Abraham Lincoln Lyceum Address

krepitch

Lots of press reports coming from Guantanamo, are there?

Well, then, I have a question for you. Do you really think that the US government has or had a legitimate reason for detaining everyone that it did?

justAndy

I heard that a bunch of them are being released and sent back to their home countries.
Of course all kinds of non players are going to get caught up in the post 9/11 frenzy.
Americans don't really torture prisoners - we just train our puppet regimes how to do it.
What's that school?
School of the Americas?

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Homer Simpson

Let's put this another way. Imagine someone you know is being tortured. The torturer agrees to stop if that person fingers you for a crime. If your friend is in enough pain, he will say anything to get the pain to stop. Now, you've been indicted -- with admissible evidence -- for something you probably didn't do.

Allowing torture for evidence opens up a huge door for those who would misuse it.